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Old 08-23-2009, 12:29 AM   #1
nick012000
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default Extra Attack and Bows

How does Extra Attack work with bows? Do you need to make the rolls for Rapid Firing Bows from Martial Arts to eliminate the Ready time between shots to take full advantage of it, or do you simply make an attack for each Extra Attack?
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Old 08-23-2009, 12:52 AM   #2
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

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Originally Posted by nick012000 View Post
How does Extra Attack work with bows? Do you need to make the rolls for Rapid Firing Bows from Martial Arts to eliminate the Ready time between shots to take full advantage of it, or do you simply make an attack for each Extra Attack?
All that ranged attack stuff is problematic for Extra Attack. By the strict letter of the rules you get no real benefit if you have to deal with ready time. I struggled with that for a long thread while playtesting GURPS Supers (my character was a speedster who was good at throwing things).

It's occurred to me that you might stretch a point: Spend your normal action on readying an attack (grabbing a rock, tennis ball, or ball bearing). Now your Extra Attack gives you a second action, *as long as it's an attack*. So you throw the missile, and next time you start over. It may be pushing things a little to say the second action is an "extra attack" when the first action wasn't an attack; but the first action took the same time as if it had been an attack. . . .

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Old 08-23-2009, 04:05 AM   #3
Dinadon
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
It's occurred to me that you might stretch a point: Spend your normal action on readying an attack (grabbing a rock, tennis ball, or ball bearing). Now your Extra Attack gives you a second action, *as long as it's an attack*. So you throw the missile, and next time you start over. It may be pushing things a little to say the second action is an "extra attack" when the first action wasn't an attack; but the first action took the same time as if it had been an attack. . . .
Since MA, Extra Attack has been clarified. It isn't an extra action (so no additional Step), it is an additional attack to a maneuver that already allows you to attack.

To fire your bow once per attack you will need to do all the rolls for Rapid Firing Bows for each attack.
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Old 08-23-2009, 01:50 PM   #4
Gnomasz
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

I'd say it requires Single Skill: Bows 20% Limitation, since it is extremely different from attacking twice (and more) in other ways, and allows you to fire multiple arrows at a time (and possibly ready 2 or more arrows in two seconds).
I can't say if it should have Multi-Strike Enhancement: it uses one bow (and still 2 hands), but two arrows to fire.
Unless you have 4 arms: then extra attack with bows is pretty easy.
(Modifiers from Powers)
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Old 08-23-2009, 04:46 PM   #5
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

I'd let a character with Extra Attack fast-load a bow by rolling vs Bow at the usual penalties (-1 with Heroic Archer and Weapon Master, -3 with either, or -6 with neither) and adding the -2 penalty for multiple fast-draws (MA p 103) to the fast-load penalty if he tried to fast-load twice. I wouldn't penalize the attack roll, though.

I don't know if that makes the cost of Extra Attack worth it, but it at least lets a bow master use Extra Attack.
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:28 PM   #6
bcd
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

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Originally Posted by nick012000 View Post
How does Extra Attack work with bows? Do you need to make the rolls for Rapid Firing Bows from Martial Arts to eliminate the Ready time between shots to take full advantage of it, or do you simply make an attack for each Extra Attack?
If you want to be cinematic you could do a Legolas and let them have multiple arrows nocked at the same time and get one attack per arrow so long as they have enough Extra Attacks for it. Whether this results in multiple attacks or just higher RoF is a different question. As for fast-drawing and nocking the arrows, this is either something you do before the fight or else perhaps multiple fast-draws if the GM is kind, or a special Fast Draw (two arrows) skill or technique to do several in one fluid motion? And none of this is RAW as far as I know but I'm sure it can be fun :-)
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Old 08-23-2009, 05:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

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If you want to be cinematic you could do a Legolas and let them have multiple arrows nocked at the same time and get one attack per arrow so long as they have enough Extra Attacks for it.
Thats actually Dual weapon attack used with Bow.

Roll vs bow -3 ..than 2 fast draws ,both at -4 ,than another Bow at -3 to hit(Or Dual weapon attack Bow at -3..if lower than bow).

Shooting just 1 arrow/turn = same as above ,except only 1 fast draw.

Also Extra attack is melee only ,unless enhanced (I think).
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:01 PM   #8
Langy
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

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Also Extra attack is melee only ,unless enhanced (I think).
Nothing indicates that; you can definitely have Extra Attack and use it with firearms un-enhanced.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:38 PM   #9
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

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Originally Posted by nick012000 View Post
How does Extra Attack work with bows? Do you need to make the rolls for Rapid Firing Bows from Martial Arts to eliminate the Ready time between shots to take full advantage of it, or do you simply make an attack for each Extra Attack?
I think that it doesn't. There's no way to ready a bow twice in a single maneuver, let alone ready twice and shoot twice. Maybe you could hack something together with enormous skill penalties, but generally it works as well as extra attack with a flintlock pistol.

If you had ATR, you could pull off two shots in a turn.
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Old 08-24-2009, 05:34 AM   #10
Gnomasz
 
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Default Re: Extra Attack and Bows

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Originally Posted by Agramer View Post
Thats actually Dual weapon attack used with Bow.

Roll vs bow -3 ..than 2 fast draws ,both at -4 ,than another Bow at -3 to hit(Or Dual weapon attack Bow at -3..if lower than bow).
Extra Attack with Single Skill actually is a Dual-Weapon Attack, except it nullifies DWA penalties for all weapons covered with the skill, not just for specialized weapon type (arrow type?), like the techniqe (IMHO).

I don't have MA, so i don't know what Rapid Firing Bows is, but I wouldn't allow to fire multiple times in a second, unless character has Altered Time Rate 2:
- first 1/3s: he fires an ready arrow,
- second 1/3s: readies next arrow (with Fast-Draw(arrows) roll to shorten it to one turn)
- third 1/3s: fires second arrow
Doing this in one second wouldn't depend on skills of character (so just giving him penalties wouldn't fit): human body lacks needed movement speed.

I see only 2 ways Extra Attack could work with bows:
- character has 4 or more arms and wields 2 bows: he can fire from both at a time
- character has 2 (3) arms: he fires multiple arrows at a time from one bow (like Legolas). It requires Single Skill (bows) limitation, because it doesn't represent coordination but holding 2 or more arrows in one hand (alternative Adventage: High Manual Dexterity for 1/5 cost sounds reasonably [but not necessary]), and don't allow to attack two targets that are away from themselves (-5% Nuissance Effect?).
Still not sure if it needs Multi-Strike Enhancement: character uses one bow, but two arrows, and fires them at once, so he uses a bow once. I'd say it doesn't need the Enhancement, but it would be unfair that it is as easy as firing from 2 bows (with 4 arms), so I'll put a +10% Multi-Arrows Enhancement.
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