If they Fell/Were Redeemed

[Glamourweaver]

I was just pondering what the possible Words/Natures of Different Superiors would be if they switched sides. Here are my thoughts:

Blandine: Madness, Illusion, or Fantasy (she deals in lies, delusions, & escapism, "protecting" her obsessions in elaborate fantasies)

Christopher: Ignorance

David: n/a

Dominic: the best I've found (which is a lot better in this case than anything I've come up with) is Cleansing, which you'll see below is Belial's Word if he Redeemed. Would be ironic for Gabriel to remain divine, Belial to redeem & Dominic to Fall. Dominic would find himself inflicted with the same madness he so despised Gabriel for. As Prince of Cleansing, Dominic is a more Western Judeo-Christian alternative to the Jyhadism of Khalid Prince of Fanaticism. Inflicted with Habbalite like madness (which a redeemed Belial could be the reason for) Dominic attempts to purify away all that doesn't fit under his idea of righteousness. Think Jerry Fallwell on steroids.

Eli: either Pestilence (life ruined & destroyed through creation & proliferation of life) or Sloth (based on his current behavior)

Gabriel: Wrath

Jean: "Reduction" or "Logic" (a uniquely deluded Habbalite Prince who still professes Reason & Objectivity, but has removed God & all matters divine from his universal equation; he promotes the death of faith via Doubt, Scepticism, & Modernity), another alternative word would be Pollution

Janus: either Chaos (or "Storms", but including chaos in general in its greater meaning)... or Theft of course

Jordi: Beasts

Khalid: Fanaticism

Laurence: n/a

Litheroy: i've got nothing

Marc: either Envy, or if he becomes the negative side of his current job - Poverty or Famine (either being broad enough in meaning to include the other & all forms of serfdom, slavery, destitution, etc.)

Michael: Might or Pride

Novalis: Weakness

Yves: ... lets go with n/a

Zadkiel: as it only stands to reason that the quintessential Cherub would Fall to become the quintessential Djinn, I'm going with Obsession or Possession




Alaemon: Divine Mystery

Andrealphus: Love

Asmodeus: Order

Baal: Valor (now that Michael has a Word that in its current form is so broad that it includes valor, Baal could likely not return to Archangel status and would be a servitor of either War of the Sword; the exception to this is if Michael Fell, in which case Baal would replace him & likely reclaim his old position and servitors as Archangel of Valor)

Beleth: Fear

Belial: Cleansing (if he Redeemed & Gabriel doesn't Fall, than he gets all the Vengeance aspects of her job under the Word of Cleansing, while she returns to Divine Inspiration & literal Fire with her return to sanity. If she Falls to become Princess of Wrath & he Redeems than he gets the Word of Fire in her place)

Fleurity: well the positive aspect of Drugs is all health related, so how about Health or Healing (alternatively there's Soothing or Succor, but these Words don't strike me as strong enough to stand as Superior level words & would place Fleurity as a servitor of Flowers)

Furfur: "Song" is already taken by an unnamed Grigori Archangel (see GURPS In Nomine); "Music" is already taken by Israfel (see Libre Cantacorum). If either was gone he could replace them as a full Archangel (Israfel's refusal of the post tells us that Music is strong enough to stand as an Archangel level Word)... other than that, I have no idea

Haagenti: either a) he'd be something like Gusto (as was suggested by one Heretical version I found online), but this wouldn't be Superior level IMO, so he'd serve... lets say Eli (or Jordi if he had a word more to do with natural hunting/grazing/consumption); or b) he ends up getting the word of Waters (which contain & recieve all in their vastness) and the element neglected by the Seraphim Council for millenia finally gets the attention it deserves once again

Kobal: Laughter

Kronos: Time

Lilith: Freedom (no need to change that I can see)

Lucifer: Light

Malphas: Individuality, Diversity, or Plurality/Pluralism

Mammon: Splendor

Nybbas: Communication

Saminga: I would say keep it Death, save that Night Music refers to an already existant Archangel of Death (who I think is a Grigori, but thats neither here nor there). All alternative words would fall under that Archangel though (Solace, Final Peace, etc.). One heretical version online had him as Archangel of Fullfilment though...

Valefor: Redistibution (making him a socialist counterpart to Marc).... or of course the Wind

Vapula: Progress (if Jean's still an Archangel than Vap would probably be his Servitor, if Jean Falls [see above] than a Redeemed Vap would get his job & Cathedral as Archangel of Progress)





So whats your thoughts on my picks? What are your picks?

[brass]

I think eli wold remain creation, and jsut become more and more dressed with how creation itself was on a slide, perhaps a replacement for Sloth.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Glamourweaver

Lilith: Freedom (no need to change that I can see)

Wouldn't it be a change to go from freedom from God to freedom under God?

[Glamourweaver]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Wouldn't it be a change to go from freedom from God to freedom under God?

The implications of the Word would change certainly, but it would be the same Word. Most of her earthly agendas would stay the same (women's liberation, fall of abusive governmental power, etc.), she'd just be more cooperative with organized religion to reach those goals.

[banditangel]

... Given that Lilith is human, and her word was granted by Lucifer, *is* it possible for her to redeem?

I would have thought Eli would have become Destruction.

I could see Baal, Lilith, Gabriel, Jordi, Marc and Michael all keeping their words as-is. Michael, especially - it's not too hard to make "War" a demonic word. If Gabriel falls and Belial doesn't, I expect Gabriel would probably launch an immediate assault on Belial to reclaim HER word.

I'm clueless on Novalis - plants just don't strike me as having an evil aspect. I could see her as similar to Apathy, though - basically, preaching that evil is an equally valid point of view, and we should respect and tolerate it. In short, convincing people to stand by idly while evil occurs. (Callousness would actually fit fairly well...)

I'd think Litheroy would be "loose lips / betrayal by revealing secrets" (augh, I know there's a word that covers that). Heck, he'd have spilled half of Heaven's secrets if he wasn't barred by God Himself - he's *already* a threat in this way :)

Litheroy falling brings him fairly close to Lucifer, IMO (Litheroy always struck me as a naive version of the Lightbringer - and their words are quite similar). I could see Lucifer taking him on as an apprentice, destroying him outright, or pretending to destroy him and then having Litheroy as a decoy Lucifer figure for public meetings.

Having, say, Andrealphus redeem to something *other* than Love would be an interesting twist. I could actually see "Lust" as an angelic word, although the poor AA would have a LOT of work in front of them (basically, the idea of casual sex without any real emotional bond, but done in a *healthy* manner)

I'd give Fluerity the word of "Medicine" - he's a fairly narrowly focused DP, and "Health" seems a bit broad. I like it, mind :)

Furfur: Calm or Classical Music both come to mind. Ideally, though, it'd have to be something that is both a mindset AND a genre of music, like Hardcore is. I can't think of any :)

Lucifer: Would he redeem in to a mere Archangel? Or would he keep the ability to grant words? How would *that* throw things off? And where is Hell getting its words and whatnot without him? (Hmmm, Lucifer's Redemption would be an interesting campaign premise... especially if Litheroy disappeared around the same time :))

Malphas: Unity?

Mammon: If Marc falls, I could see Mammon taking over Trade. Otherwise, Mammon would probably be under Marc. Charity, maybe?

Saminga: Undead - he's the one that figured out their secret, he can probably make them in to an angelic force. Alternately, Life or Afterlife - the latter being responsible for handling Saints, Ghosts, Reincarnation, etc., and making people know that their loved ones are in a better place, not a place to be feared.



I liked most of your picks - Novalis was the only one I really didn't feel fit. I don't see any reason *not* to do David, Laurence and Yves, though, just for fun :) (Actually, the first two could probably keep their word. I'm *really* not sure what a Fallen Destiny looks like - Fate is too obvious and already taken. I do like the idea of Twisted Destiny, though I'm not sure what it *is* yet)


Hmmm, campaign seed: Yves and Litheroy have fallen, while Lucifer and a number of DPs have redeemed (for taste, Andrealphus to something other than Love, Lilith was forcably redeemed when her word went angelic, and Belial - which caused Gabriel to fall. Apparently his redemption and word-change *didn't* cure her madness. Belial is trying to manage Fire's domain despite his word being Cleansing. Gabriel is making Beleth and Nybbas quite happy with her demonic inspirations, and is a very devious, almost psychotic, destructive force now)

[Jennifer]

Originally Posted by banditangel

Furfur: Calm or Classical Music both come to mind. Ideally, though, it'd have to be something that is both a mindset AND a genre of music, like Hardcore is. I can't think of any :)

The Blues?

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by banditangel

... Given that Lilith is human, and her word was granted by Lucifer, *is* it possible for her to redeem?
...
Lucifer: Would he redeem in to a mere Archangel? Or would he keep the ability to grant words? How would *that* throw things off? And where is Hell getting its words and whatnot without him? (Hmmm, Lucifer's Redemption would be an interesting campaign premise... especially if Litheroy disappeared around the same time :))

OK, we're down to the final action of existance.

One remaining soul waits a while then joins the rest in redemption and history ends.

Now, who is that last lost soul, is it Lucifer or Lilith?

And what happens after the end of everything?

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by banditangel

... Given that Lilith is human, [...], *is* it possible for her to redeem?

No. Humans don't get redemption. They get salvation. It's in the Corporeal Player's Guide. O:>

(I think a Fallen Jean would be Storms. And the first thing he'd do would be play Godzilla in Tartarus. I'm sure he's self-programmed himself to have a reaction of: "Okay, so I'm a Habbalite. The first thing I do is go kill that &^%&(^% who's been annoying me. And enjoy it.")

[William]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I'm sure he's self-programmed himself to have a reaction of: "Okay, so I'm a Habbalite. The first thing I do is go kill that &^%&(^% who's been annoying me. And enjoy it.")

Hee. Yeah, I bet all the Archangels have a last-ditch plan like this. I wrote up part of a fic for Michael and discarded it, once, that had him developing a deep-cover high-level Role as a human who worked for a top-secret government project whose sole purpose was to recognize the signs of Armageddon and aid Heaven, repeatedly updating it over the centuries.

If you go Remnant with a Role, see, your Role memories take over.

On the flip side of this, EDG the list once wrote a fic that had Novalis' apparent death triggering something. Not sure if it was her who came out, but a baby happened. I loved the line Yves uttered in response.

"She was, of course, a perennial."

[Rasmus Wagner]

Originally Posted by Glamourweaver

Dominic: the best I've found (which is a lot better in this case than anything I've come up with) is Cleansing, which you'll see below is Belial's Word if he Redeemed. Would be ironic for Gabriel to remain divine, Belial to redeem & Dominic to Fall. Dominic would find himself inflicted with the same madness he so despised Gabriel for. As Prince of Cleansing, Dominic is a more Western Judeo-Christian alternative to the Jyhadism of Khalid Prince of Fanaticism. Inflicted with Habbalite like madness (which a redeemed Belial could be the reason for) Dominic attempts to purify away all that doesn't fit under his idea of righteousness. Think Jerry Fallwell on steroids.

Dominic IS the balseraph Prince of Judgment, and his cloak a mighty artifact that allows him to do his work in Heaven.