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Old 09-21-2005, 10:35 AM   #1
Methariel
 
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Default When changing Vessels...

Good evening, everybody!

I'm sure that the following topic is covered in the core rules, but I don't have them at hand and hope you will help me:
What happens when a celestial changes Vessels? Do the things he carries also vanish or do they not? Or is he able to control what goes to the state of "possibility"?
To exemplify my question: Jerual, Elohite of the Sword, owns two Vessels, a strong female one (for fights) and a weak male one (only for observations - or as a help during flights). The female form is always dressed in clothes that guarantee a maximum of freedom of movement and always carries a gun and a short sword. The male Vessel is dressed in some plain suit and has got nothing else.
Now, if Jerual sliced up some two or three evil Soldiers of Hell (thereby following an explicit order by his superior) and wants to get away (and thereby avoid their demonic boss, a Captain of the War), he chooses to change his Vessels.
Will the new Vessel be dressed in the clothes of the old one or will everything disappear and be replaced? And what about the sword? Can he keep it in his hand or does he have to lay it away for a moment, change his Vessel and then take it up again (because otherwise his blade would vanish)?
I see forward to your answers,

Methariel

PS: Was my English understandable? And was it correct?
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Old 09-21-2005, 01:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: When changing Vessels...

My interpretation is that the celestial very briefly goes through the celestial state when changing vessels, so everything the vessel is carrying (within reason -- I don't think you could count a living creature, for example) will vanish with it and not be available to the new vessel. So anything you wanted to have carry over would have to be dropped momentarily during the switch. One exception would be artifacts (though maybe not corporeal ones) -- those have a celestial existence as well, and should therefore stay with the celestial in any form.

I don't think the rules state the details quite this precisely, though, so it's probably more of a GM call on exactly what vanishes. I don't believe there's much rules support for anything other than artifacts "carrying over" a vessel switch, though.

(And your English is as good or better than many native speakers.)

---Walter
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Old 10-04-2005, 06:12 AM   #3
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: When changing Vessels...

(Yes, what he said. Anything that's on a vessel and isn't an artifact will go with that vessel. Useful if you have two identical vessels! One can be covered with blood and if you take care to always wear the same stuff, you just switch and of course you didn't do it, officer!)
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:34 AM   #4
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Thank you both a lot. It's good to have this problem solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milliken
(And your English is as good or better than many native speakers.)
And thanks for that, too. I must confess that I'm a little flattered.

Methariel
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Old 10-04-2005, 02:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: When changing Vessels...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel Beth
Anything that's on a vessel and isn't an artifact will go with that vessel.
Up to Corporeal Forces x 10 whatevers (the book doesn't specify, but I think you can assume that it's pounds), if you have to go through celestial form to get to your other vessel. (In Nomine, p. 54)

If that weight limit doesn't apply, then you can do some interesting things, such as changing vessels while you're holding, say, 100 pounds of stuff, and then going celestial from your new vessel (which isn't holding anything).
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Old 10-07-2005, 07:08 AM   #6
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: When changing Vessels...

Ah, right. I'd thought that was in errata. O:p

I tend to figure that's CorpForce x 10 in pounds. (Or whatever other weights non-Americans want to use... O:> ) It's roughly how we read it in GURPS In Nomine, where we just said "up to Light encumbrance," IIRC.
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Old 10-08-2005, 07:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel Beth
I tend to figure that's CorpForce x 10 in pounds. (Or whatever other weights non-Americans want to use... O:> )
Well, that could make a quite enormous difference. In Europe, the most common weight used is the (kilo)gram.
One pound (abbreviated "lb.", or not?) in the U.S. equals 453 grams, when I'm correct here, while one European pound equals 500 grams. So if your "U.S. Malakite" with three Corporeal Forces would let 13.590 grams vanish, a Malakite in Italy could take 15.000 grams with him.
But if we (outside the U.S.) take the even more common kilogram as the weight being multiplied with the Corporeal Forces, our Virtue in Rome even would make 30.000 grams vanish.
So I think outside the U.S. one should stick to the (U.S.) pounds, too, because otherwise too much things could be taken into potentiality.
(I hope I understood you correctly, Beth, because if not, my reply here was superfluent.)

Methariel
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: When changing Vessels...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methariel
Well, that could make a quite enormous difference.
I think she meant that as in "the book doesn't say, and there aren't errata for it yet, so in the meantime use whatever's most convenient for you in your game. We use pounds". And she means avoirdupois pounds (abbreviated, yes, "lb.", from the Latin libra, meaning "scale"), the modern American measure.

The important thing is not what measure you decide to use; if you want vessels to have tremendous storage capacity and measure that "10 x Corporeal Forces" in gigagrams, that's up to you. The important thing is that it stays consistent within your campaign.

It is worth noting, however, that errata have been submitted for this to standardize the measure at pounds. (By which we mean avoirdupois pounds.)
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Old 10-11-2005, 08:23 AM   #9
Archangel Beth
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Default Re: When changing Vessels...

Mind, it'd be highly amusing if the weight varied with location. So if you're in America, you use American pounds, and if you're in England, you use kilograms, and if you're on the Moon in an American base you use American pounds (the weight, not the mass!)...

Of course, if you then go into a location where you'd be "overweight," the GM might sadistically decide you have to shed that potentiality-weight immediately, which could make declaring stuff for Customs rather inconvenient...



What? What? Hasn't anyone thought of In Nomine Toon before?
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Old 10-12-2005, 02:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: When changing Vessels...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel Beth
Mind, it'd be highly amusing if the weight varied with location. So if you're in America, you use American pounds, and if you're in England, you use kilograms, and if you're on the Moon in an American base you use American pounds (the weight, not the mass!)...
For the record, we use pounds about as often as kilos over here. This sometimes causes annoyance and confusion, especially for foreigners. (As it happens, we still use them as currency for the same reason.)

Edit: pounds, that is, not foreigners.
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