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Old 03-18-2016, 01:49 PM   #31
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
Page 24 Sanitized Metabolism

Compare with:

Obscure 1 (Smell) [2/level] as used in Bioroid Bazaar
The big difference here is that Sanitized Metabolism only affects rolls to track you by scent. It doesn't help when someone is using smell to identify you despite your excellent disguise or hologram, to tell that you're in the room, to pick up clues about you, to use Discriminatory Smell (Emotion Sense) as Empathy against you, etc. It's a rather limited subset that effectively just makes your "scent trail" decay a little faster without actually obscuring your scent in real time.
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Old 03-18-2016, 01:56 PM   #32
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

I bought this because I like weird applications of science and sci-fi things related to the gnostic and languages. While a lot of it was interesting, I was also a bit disappointed by the lack of scope and creativity this book presented.

Take dimensionality for example; there are some creative applications of 4D-movement here (like attacks from any side, or punching people in the organs without damaging the intervening layers of body), but many applications of 3D-4D transitions that could be glanced from reading a Wikipedia page are given no treatment.

For example, knots do no exist in 4D-space[1], which allows the trivial unknotting of any knot by translating it into 4D space, trivially unravelling it, and bringing it back to 3D space. Conversely, an object can be oriented in 4D-space such that when translated to 3D space, it forms a knot - allowing, for example, knots that are hard-to-impossible to untie in 3D.

Much like 3D shapes project 2D shadows on planes, 4D shapes project 3D shadows on 3D space, but unless I missed it there was no mention of four-dimensionality being used to create illusions, holographic projections, or similar.

4D combat is cool and all (punching someone in the brain directly to kill is pretty hyperviolent!), but the rules seemed to implicitly assume a 4D combatant vs. a 3D one, with no treatment of combat between two 4D-capable fighters (to whom many of the surprise attacks, if they had hypervision, would just be regular attacks). There also seemed to be a lack of more fun things here, like hyperspectral 4D-projections where all points in 3D-space are equidistant from each other, allowing 4D ranged attacks at a set range penalty.

Logos feels sparse at merely a page of material; were five fairly generic powers all that could be done with languages? Where are the languages where it's impossible to tell a lie (or ones where it's impossible to speak the truth), or NewSpeak mind control, or computational Chomsky conlangs that perform logical operations when spoken, turning speech into a calculator?

That said, there's definitely some interesting things here, but I came in expecting less comic-book superpowers and more sci-fi, perhaps closer in subject matter to Powers: Enhanced Senses, and I feel that the treatment of a lot of the powers and weird sciences were pretty sparse. I guess in a $9.99 book there's only so much space, but again I was hoping for the depth of Enhanced Senses.

[1] More correctly, 1D line-knots, which are like ropes, do not exist in 4D. Knots made from 2D-surfaces do exist.
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:01 PM   #33
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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No form of Illusion is listed in the definition of External Control. And it doesn't seem to me to matter if you cause someone to misperceive a situation through physical camouflage or disguise, projected holograms, subtle psychological tricks, overt hypnotism, or psionic or magical mind control. The effect is still to change what they perceive.

GURPS makes a distinction between perception and action. Perception is affected by Illusion, but not by Mind Control; action is affected by Mind Control, but not (directly) by Illusion. You can play verbal games to your heart's content, but the two categories are game mechanically distinct.
Yeah obviously Kromm was just playing "verbal games" when he listed them under Resistant to Mind Control!
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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There are two versions of "toss it out": You might think it didn't need Cosmic to allow it, or you might think it was too powerful to be justified even by Cosmic. Are you thinking of the first, the second, or both?
The first, if it were the second I would have said something like "In some settings your just not going to allow these abilities" Which of course is also true.
PK explains it better here. I put up some Gnomes on the forums that are lower level with the Fractal power but otherwise they have the full set. I did not give them Cosmic sense its a racial template.
Several of your abilities would be useable in a Supers game without Cosmic but I might require that kind of tax in a MH campaign.
But in THIS book the use of Cosmic is especially appropriate since its a Weird Powers supplement. So a certain kind of setting assumption is implicit.
Also its a good set of examples of Cosmic as Unusual Background :)
And a lot of the uses of Cosmic in this book provide tangible benefits rather then just being rare.

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So this ability is priced assuming that (A) a normal human being is buying it and (B) the GM is respecting the limit on HMD listed in the Basic Set. If those assumptions aren't correct, just delete Cosmic. After all, one of the reasons The Weird breaks out the statistics is so you can easily rework it to fit your own game.
Yep and I do so love those stat boxes and Under the Hoods in this and other books, including your own Divine Powers.
They add a LOT of utility since they can inspire other builds.
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:10 PM   #35
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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I've endorsed the use of Cosmic in the past to (A) exceed campaign limits on a leveled advantage and (B) allow an advantage to stack with existing copies of itself, where it normally wouldn't because it isn't leveled. You're effectively paying a "tax" on the ability to break the system's or campaign's limits. And note that those limits do vary from race to race! A racial template is its own Unusual Background or prerequisite for whatever traits it includes (like the Bush Robot having HMD 10); the existence of said template doesn't mean that other characters can freely buy traits that are exotic, over-leveled, etc. (In other words, just because a "bush robot" racial template exists doesn't mean your normal human PC can buy Digital Mind, Flight, or HMD 5+.)

So this ability is priced assuming that (A) a normal human being is buying it and (B) the GM is respecting the limit on HMD listed in the Basic Set. If those assumptions aren't correct, just delete Cosmic. After all, one of the reasons The Weird breaks out the statistics is so you can easily rework it to fit your own game.
That doesn't really make any sense in this context:

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The third level retains Clinging; adds Accessory (Micromanipulators) [1] + Injury Tolerance (No Ears) [1]; and improves lower-level traits to High Manual Dexterity 10 (Cosmic, Exceeds normal limits, +50%; Weird, ‑10%) [70] + Injury Tolerance (Diffuse; Body of Swarm, Infiltration, +40%; Partial, Arms, ‑20%; Weird, ‑10%) [110] + Sensitive Touch (Microscopic 1, +25%; Weird, ‑10%) [12].
So you're a "normal" human with no ears and Diffuse??? You can buy Diffuse without a special cosmic surcharge, but you have to pay more for mere High Manual Dexterity???

This is part of the Mutation power, I don't think you're a normal human any more.
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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I bought this because I like weird applications of science and sci-fi things related to the gnostic and languages. While a lot of it was interesting, I was also a bit disappointed by the lack of scope and creativity this book presented.
Yeah this could have been easily expanded and presented in 2 books.
Weird Science and Powers Weird Science or something along those lines.
Unlike you it left me wanting more rather then feeling disappointed but I respect the limitations of Word Count.
I actually thought too much was used on 4D though it was interesting and I don't feel cheated by it.
However I would have loved and still wait for a GURPS Martial Arts: Fighting in Multiple Dimensions book that covers 3D (Air, water and space) and 4D could have easily been added to that for an even more awesome book.
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Old 03-18-2016, 02:52 PM   #37
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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Originally Posted by Eukie View Post
Logos feels sparse at merely a page of material; were five fairly generic powers all that could be done with languages? Where are the languages where it's impossible to tell a lie (or ones where it's impossible to speak the truth), or NewSpeak mind control, or computational Chomsky conlangs that perform logical operations when spoken, turning speech into a calculator?
Or how about Letter-within-a-Letter Technique and Discerning Savant's Eye . . .
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:20 PM   #38
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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Originally Posted by Eukie View Post
Logos feels sparse at merely a page of material; were five fairly generic powers all that could be done with languages? Where are the languages where it's impossible to tell a lie (or ones where it's impossible to speak the truth), or NewSpeak mind control, or computational Chomsky conlangs that perform logical operations when spoken, turning speech into a calculator?
Well, no, obviously that's not all that could be done. But there are issues of space.

* Impossible to tell a lie, or to speak the truth, is not an "ability" of a "power." Rather, it's a feature of a language. If there were to be a GURPS supplement devoted to languages, it would be totally fitting there. On the other hand, True Speech does seem to be related to what you're describing; it grants you the Charisma bonus only when you tell the truth as you know it.

* NewSpeak mind control seems to be almost exactly what Imperium does.

* It's not quite what you're describing, but Hyperliteracy uses the written form of a language as a computational engine, based on Runes of Power. You could adapt it.

Really, every single power in this book could have be expanded; many of them could have been doubled or tripled.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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Yeah obviously Kromm was just playing "verbal games" when he listed them under Resistant to Mind Control!
Again, Resistant/Immune to Mind Control does the things that Kromm defines it as doing.
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Old 03-18-2016, 03:28 PM   #40
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Default Re: GURPS Powers: The Weird

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* It's not quite what you're describing, but Hyperliteracy uses the written form of a language as a computational engine, based on Runes of Power. You could adapt it.

Really, every single power in this book could have be expanded; many of them could have been doubled or tripled.
I wondered about Runes of Power actually. What is that referencing?
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