Affliction: Social Advantages/Disadvantages

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by naloth

I'd much rather base the cost on what change is being made, have it resisted by the target (since they the ones gaining or losing abilities), and have failures be more like if you failed with a curse than if you failed to find the world you wanted.

By that reasoning, should mind control and memory alteration abilities not be subject to a resistance roll, as long as they don't change the character sheets of the affected people?

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It alters everyone who knows of the person...and that could be almost everyone in the world if your target is, say, "Donald Trump" Plus changes all the physical evidence. It doesn't transform the person at all. It transforms the world around the person.

You could say that afflicting weightlessness on a person affects all matter in the universe, preventing gravity between all matter and the matter in the person’s body. But it’s easier to just apply weightlessness to the person.
Ignoring afflictions, if a character has a particularly bad social stigma, do you also apply intolerance to all other characters in the game universe, or do you just focus on the one character’s social stigma?

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Ignoring afflictions, if a character has a particularly bad social stigma, do you also apply intolerance to all other characters in the game universe, or do you just focus on the one character’s social stigma?

You probably shouldn't allow such a particularly bad social stigma unless the character belongs to a group which a large portion of the setting dislikes. That could be a retroactive decision to justify that character, but it wouldn't be the case that everyone else in the setting suddenly got significant changes to their mindset just because that character was born.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Andreas

By that reasoning, should mind control and memory alteration abilities not be subject to a resistance roll, as long as they don't change the character sheets of the affected people?

My comment had nothing to do with eliminating any resistance rolls. Instead, it was pointing out that the subject most directly affected should be the one able to resist a given effect.

As far the alternate jumper, it's a bad kludge that could be used to justify any change worth any cost. Frex, why buy weather control when you can just change worlds to one with the right storms?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by naloth

My comment had nothing to do with eliminating any resistance rolls. Instead, it was pointing out that the subject most directly affected should be the one able to resist a given effect.

As far the alternate jumper, it's a bad kludge that could be used to justify any change worth any cost. Frex, why buy weather control when you can just change worlds to one with the right storms?

Weather control is probably cheaper.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Weather control is probably cheaper.

Since you it costs 120 points per +1 or -1 per 1/3 of a mile radius, it depends greatly on your expectations. Obviously major changes will be much cheaper if you can pay a flat 100 points and redefine the entire universe.

[Andreas]

Originally Posted by naloth

My comment had nothing to do with eliminating any resistance rolls. Instead, it was pointing out that the subject most directly affected should be the one able to resist a given effect.

Your comment said that other characters affected wouldn't be able to resist (since they wouldn't be gaining or losing abilities).

The one most directly effected might very well have an insignificant ability to resist. Using the one best able to resist rather than the one who is most affected seems much better. Otherwise you can effectively eliminate the resistance rolls for characters by indirectly targeting them like that.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Andreas

The one most directly effected might very well have an insignificant ability to resist. Using the one best able to resist rather than the one who is most affected seems much better. Otherwise you can effectively eliminate the resistance rolls for characters by indirectly targeting them like that.

I think the Social Stigma is confusing why this is a problem. Think about something like Affliction (Religious Rank 9 ("King of All The Gods")) instead. Possibly used on somebody else who voluntarily fails to resist. Should that really allow him to issue new divine Commandments automatically accepted by the pious members of any faith? Probably not.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I think the Social Stigma is confusing why this is a problem. Think about something like Affliction (Religious Rank 9 ("King of All The Gods")) instead. Possibly used on somebody else who voluntarily fails to resist. Should that really allow him to issue new divine Commandments automatically accepted by the pious members of any faith? Probably not.

On the other hand, Religious Rank 8 can be and has been conferred by believers, through an entirely mundane organization with no supernatural powers. It has even granted the ability to make authoritative decrees about God's will.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Your comment said that other characters affected wouldn't be able to resist (since they wouldn't be gaining or losing abilities).

No, I said other characters *unaffected* aren't the ones that should be making resistance rolls. The one you're directly targeting is the one that should resist for several reasons, many of which I listed.

Who had the best chance wasn't part the the idea I was replying to either. I did not care for taking the chance to resist from the target.

The one most directly effected might very well have an insignificant ability to resist. Using the one best able to resist rather than the one who is most affected seems much better. Otherwise you can effectively eliminate the resistance rolls for characters by indirectly targeting them like that.

In the context of this discussion that's like having Aunt May use Spider-man's dodge since he cares about her, even when he's not there.

If you are casting something on a target, it's the target that should defend. This whole "I changed the world around you" is a cop out.