Hunting Nazis across the Universe

[AlexanderHowl]

I imagine that it would cause an occult arms race as well as a scientific and military arms race. With every world accessed, a nation would potentially gain access to the wealth of an entire planet. Of course, if people can only cross over with what they (or a pack animal) can carry, many of the heavy weapons of the era will be located only on Earth.

So, let us assume that the travel rituals can only transport living creatures carrying up to Heavy Encumbrance. A ritual is capable of targeting multiple living creatures, so small teams can cross over, but ten people with each ritual is a workable maximum (pack animals would count as one human plus one for every SM above 0). We will further assume that the base energy cost of a travel ritual to a compatible world is 10 and that critical failures send targets to another world (though one that is similar enough to the target would be a potential target).

[Plane]

If you're dealing with dimension-hopping, it might be interesting to have an alternate world where some of the vanished prisoners from concentration camps were actually sent to other dimensions.

[AlexanderHowl]

Actually, this is planet-hopping rather than dimension-hopping. All of the worlds are concurrent with the Earth, they are just many, many light-years from the Earth. Of course, there is nothing preventing Infinity or Centrum from stumbling on the planet-hopping timeline or having the Allies stumble upon a dimension-hopping ritual while attempting to reverse engineer the incomplete notes for a Nazi planet-hopping ritual. The Cabal would be hopelessly neutered though within the timeline, as the timeline would have no mana, though the magic from the timeline could be used anywhere as it uses more fundamental forms of magic to manipulate reality than mana.

[ronwit]

Originally Posted by johndallman

I had no idea Sony was a multi-world corporation. This should make some parts of chasing down the Nazis much easier.

Actually, this makes things a lot worse. Sony is on the other side.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, let us assume that the travel rituals can only transport living creatures carrying up to Heavy Encumbrance. A ritual is capable of targeting multiple living creatures, so small teams can cross over, but ten people with each ritual is a workable maximum (pack animals would count as one human plus one for every SM above 0).

...needles in haystacks...

The Allies will indeed try to hunt down the Nazis, but given how hard it will be to track them down, there will also be two other policies:

1. Magical R&D for developing blocking rituals, and make Earth impervious to uncontrolled access; as a secondary defensive line, R&D for developing early-warning systems identifying arrivals;
2. A heavy militarization of the territory. Some other expense will be reduced, but you'll have a counter-intruder team in every town, and a tank platoon in every city. National Guard-like organizations will be trained to deal with intruder teams, etc.

Note, 2. above can be sustained over a long time in Western countries in particular if there are recon/harassment missions by the Nazis. These will be keeping the public opinion worried enough to warrant for the militarization. If the Nazis disappear for ten years, then the militarization will seem less and less necessary.

[AlexanderHowl]

With the excuse of the Cold War, a fair amount of militarization would take place anyway, so I imagine that USA could say that it is looking for East German spies (the USSR could say they are looking for West German spies). In the case of magical research, I imagine that the USA and the USSR would keep that line of research top secret and seek to discredit any independent researchers to avoid any breakout situation that would result in them contacting the Nazis. Of course, they would be quite paranoid about magical Nazis spies stealing technology, so they would probably disguise magical rituals of protection as government inspections.

In the case of the Nazis, they would be able to maintain a TL6 civilization if they were capable of engaging in trade between their colonies. Even relatively modest trade through pack horses would be sufficient to keep to TL6, as long as they have an industrialized population of >20 million. A settlement and/or evacuation of 50% of the Nazi German population on other planets from 1939-1945 would give a population of >30 million (the Nazis would likely leave behind anyone over the age of 60, any disabled people, including military veterans, and any other people that they do not find ideal). With group effort and the sacrifice of tens of millions of prisoners, the Nazis could establish the colonies with some effort. The Final Solution would likely have been mass sacrifice rather than mass murder (meaning that the Nazis would have paradoxically treated their prisoners slightly better, as a dead prisoner was useless, though they would have likely killed them faster). The Allies could have officially blamed the vast depopulation on Nazis bioweapons.

With an average population of 300,000 per colony (assuming 100 colonies), the Nazi colonies would have a decent diversity of capabilities and genetics, even with the insane policies if the Nazis. With virgin worlds to exploit, the Nazis would have spent the majority of the first decade after the war just establishing their industrial base and pumping out babies. It might be a generation before they could do anything threatening, but they could easily double in population every thirty years. By 2005, they could have a population of 120 million across 100 worlds.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Actually, this is planet-hopping rather than dimension-hopping.

OK, so how do the travelers decide where exactly they'll arrive? If they go at random, arriving on a planet like our own, most of them will fall into an ocean and drown quickly, under that heavy encumbrance, unless tehre is an emergency go-back-home spell that acts very quickly.

Heck, if they pick an altitude at random, they may end up buried in a mountain.

Or suppose they do arrive on solid ground, say in a very thick jungle in the Southern hemisphere of a planet with no civilization at all. How will a small team on foot there be able to ascertain whether there's a Nazi base on the Northern polar continent?

[Michele]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In the case of the Nazis, they would be able to maintain a TL6 civilization if they were capable of engaging in trade between their colonies. Even relatively modest trade through pack horses would be sufficient to keep to TL6, as long as they have an industrialized population of >20 million. A settlement and/or evacuation of 50% of the Nazi German population on other planets from 1939-1945 would give a population of >30 million (the Nazis would likely leave behind anyone over the age of 60, any disabled people, including military veterans, and any other people that they do not find ideal). With group effort and the sacrifice of tens of millions of prisoners, the Nazis could establish the colonies with some effort. The Final Solution would likely have been mass sacrifice rather than mass murder (meaning that the Nazis would have paradoxically treated their prisoners slightly better, as a dead prisoner was useless, though they would have likely killed them faster). The Allies could have officially blamed the vast depopulation on Nazis bioweapons.

With an average population of 300,000 per colony (assuming 100 colonies), the Nazi colonies would have a decent diversity of capabilities and genetics, even with the insane policies if the Nazis. With virgin worlds to exploit, the Nazis would have spent the majority of the first decade after the war just establishing their industrial base and pumping out babies. It might be a generation before they could do anything threatening, but they could easily double in population every thirty years. By 2005, they could have a population of 120 million across 100 worlds.

I don't believe it can be so easy.

First thing, by January 1945 the surviving total population of the concentration camps is less than one million. Even if you add all the POWs, you don't reach "tens of millions" of potential victims.

Secondly, by the same date, the Germans might have enough transportable food for 20 million people for say six months, no more. And if you arrive on an alien planet, it might take you a couple of years before you can get the first significant harvest.

Third, if the Germans focus on simple survival, nearly all they bring away will be food supplies, agricultural implements, livestock. I don't believe they can get their first TL6 factory in a few years. If they don't focus on mere survival, they're toast.

Fourth, you are assuming all colonies succeed. Heck, if the Germans can eat the proteins of their new planet, then they can also be eaten there. And I am not just thinking of large predators, but of bacteria, fungi, viruses for which there is no previous immunity, no vaccine, no cure. Add a dozen famines (maybe the people can survive the critters, but what about the crops?), a couple of volcanic eruptions, a tsunami and similar other mishaps.

Fifth, you are creating a Nigerian population pyramid. You start by leaving behind the old and oldish. Then, the relatively old will be the first victims of the new diseases. Unsuccessful colonies will disappear or shrivel. Therefore the few successful ones, the ones the Nazis count on for their comeback, will be chock-full of youths and children and babies, also because that's their politics, and because the first babies born on the new planet might well be more resistant to the local bacteria. The end result is that the military age class, in ten years, will be very small.

Sixth, on the other hand, you'll have lots of teenagers in those successful colonies. Which probably are successful because the place is fine. The old people are trying to brainwash these teenagers with the Nazi ideology and the need to go back to a place where the youngsters hazily remember they were always hungry and bombed every night. But the more enterprising and smart teenagers will be looking at the open, inviting plains outside the compounds, not at going back to a bad, deadly place that means nothing to them.