Roll DX for Spells

[platimus]

Originally Posted by hcobb

DX also governs things like action sequence. So a higher DX character would get to disbelieve an illusion before it hits.

Therefore DX covers mental quickness and physical agility.

To be honest, I've always liked the idea of using IQ (or whatever it's called in whatever system) as the initiative stat.

[Skarg]

Using DX is slightly odd from a "what does it represent?" perspective, at first glance.

But I can rationalize it as DX including spatial and physical intelligence and connection to the material/magical plane rather than just mental/conceptual ability.

And, it works better for game balance and variety. It's one of the things I prefer about TFT magic to vanilla GURPS magic (which uses IQ as the base for most spell rolls, which means wizards often just pile on IQ).

Overall, I think it works better and is more interesting and makes for more varied wizard characters to have a distinction between a wizard's ability to learn powerful spells and their skill with actually casting them. I think the peculiarity pointed to here is a result of TFT combining so many things into so few attributes. Combining them all down into IQ would actually be a step further in that direction, it seems to me.

If you wanted more of a distinction between spellcasting ability and physical DX, you could break those out as a house rule.

[TippetsTX]

Don't get me wrong, I like using DX for spells... it's a core aspect of the game design and it works great. It's just when a wizard has a high enough IQ, the justification for using DX seems to break down.

Like platimus says, though, I guess it's just one of those oddities of TFT that you can't think too hard about. Maybe hcobb is rubbing off on me. ;)

[hcobb]

Which is why all wizards put that one point in to get DX 9.

Why spend that point? Because Aid tops out at 14 or +5, whichever is less and 14 - 5 = 9

It's not like DX is ST. Put a point in ST and your wizard career is over. That's as stupid as a fashion model giving up bulimia.

[larsdangly]

If you don't require DX to cast spells, all wizards degenerate to 8-8-16 starting characters and almost never fail at any spell casting roll, turning the game into a mess.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

Don't get me wrong, I like using DX for spells... it's a core aspect of the game design and it works great. It's just when a wizard has a high enough IQ, the justification for using DX seems to break down.

Like platimus says, though, I guess it's just one of those oddities of TFT that you can't think too hard about. Maybe hcobb is rubbing off on me. ;)

As above, I can think relatively hard about it without it bothering me.

Originally Posted by larsdangly

If you don't require DX to cast spells, all wizards degenerate to 8-8-16 starting characters and almost never fail at any spell casting roll, turning the game into a mess.

Rather.


I have about four levels of analyticalness that all work for me:

Low: I just accept it's how it works, and enjoy the TFT feeling.

Medium: I think about it as above, and rationalize that just as IQ represents several things including "experience", DX also represents physical/spatial intelligence and psychic attunement to the physical world, so it still makes sense. (The "hands free" casting just means you don't have to gesture, but that does not have to mean that how effective you are at casting spells is about how dextrous your gestures are.)

High: If I think about it and my wizards characters in enough detail, I do start to think probably that not only should the ability of a wizard to learn spells be different from their skill at casting spells, but that their ability at casting spells should probably be different from their ability to do physical things. e.g. I may think there should be technically adept spellcasters who are not particularly physically agile. At that point, if I care, I will either just GM-note exceptions on certain characters, or conjure some house rules to my satisfaction.

Very High: If I think about it even more and want even more detail about how things work and what the abilities of the wizards are, then I just use GURPS Magic, GURPS Thaumaturgy, more house rules, etc. I actually rather enjoy that level of detail, but it's rather more work and complexity.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by platimus

To be honest, I've always liked the idea of using IQ (or whatever it's called in whatever system) as the initiative stat.

That's quite an interesting idea. It would make IQ slightly useful even for a grunt and it fits nicely with using IQ as your perception attribute. The agile characters (e.g. thieves) generally have higher IQ than the grunts so will still act before them. It means the skill monkeys and wizards always go first, which doesn't really feel right, but maybe we can live with it.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

That's quite an interesting idea. It would make IQ slightly useful even for a grunt and it fits nicely with using IQ as your perception attribute. The agile characters (e.g. thieves) generally have higher IQ than the grunts so will still act before them. It means the skill monkeys and wizards always go first, which doesn't really feel right, but maybe we can live with it.

The only part that doesn't feel right to me is the wizards going first but that's only because spells take effect as soon as they are cast. If you change that --make spells take effect at the end of the whole turn (not the end of the wizard's turn to act) -- it feels GGRREAT! Spell-casting should take time. The wizard might start casting before everyone but he won't finish until everyone else has had their turn.

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by platimus

The wizard might start casting before everyone but he won't finish until everyone else has had their turn.

Then how abouts

IQ 5 above spell: Wizard casts at the speed of thought in DX order.
For each point lower the Wizard takes another DX level in casting time.

[platimus]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Then how abouts

IQ 5 above spell: Wizard casts at the speed of thought in DX order.
For each point lower the Wizard takes another DX level in casting time.

I don't really want to comment on that :)
LOL
Really, I'm not sure I understand it. If I do, it is not something I would do. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. Just not something I would do.