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Old 10-24-2018, 01:35 PM   #21
TheAmishStig
 
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Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

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Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
While I was against their inclusion as the standard Ninja rules in the main rulebook, I would not mind seeing them as options in a future project.
They were pretty fiddly [there's GP speaking through me again] as written, but some of the ideas were really neat and I'd like to see them come back.

Ultimately, I'd like to see what returns standardized around your 'Internal Bay' idea (I think it was yours, I may have just given you credit for someone else's idea), and discrete 'Ninja Drone' tokens.

Which I had a thought for how to standardize capacities. It's a little fiddly for my liking still, but standardizes 'internal cargo capacity' across any unit that would have the capacity to do 'in, not on', massaged until existing rules [Vulcan and Truck] wouldn't have to be changed. If you're game I'll hit you up in private.
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:56 PM   #22
offsides
 
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Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

The good thing about modular Ogres (Ninja or otherwise) is that you have a nearly infinite set of options and in some ways it makes logical sense that these giant factories using templates could whip up various combinations of equipment to customize an Ogre for any given job.

The bad thing about modular Ogres is that it gets very complicated VERY quickly, and being fiddly is the least of your problems. Not the least of which is non-standard record sheets and play balance.

Overall, Ogre is incredibly simple in its structure, making things like modular Ogres a poor choice for inclusion in the core rules. If it doesn't meet KISS, it's probably too complicated. That said, I personally LOVE fiddly, detailed optional/alternate rules, and would be happy to see them (and even other modular equipment rules!) as ether an Ogrezine article or some other optional supplement. They say variety is the spice of life, so why not spice of some Ogres? :P
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:16 PM   #23
TheAmishStig
 
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Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
The good thing about modular Ogres (Ninja or otherwise) is that you have a nearly infinite set of options and in some ways it makes logical sense that these giant factories using templates could whip up various combinations of equipment to customize an Ogre for any given job.

The bad thing about modular Ogres is that it gets very complicated VERY quickly, and being fiddly is the least of your problems. Not the least of which is non-standard record sheets and play balance.

Overall, Ogre is incredibly simple in its structure, making things like modular Ogres a poor choice for inclusion in the core rules. If it doesn't meet KISS, it's probably too complicated. That said, I personally LOVE fiddly, detailed optional/alternate rules, and would be happy to see them (and even other modular equipment rules!) as ether an Ogrezine article or some other optional supplement. They say variety is the spice of life, so why not spice of some Ogres? :P
Exactly: Ogre is defined by its elegance, if it ends up with a [fnord]load of special case rules that muck up the game and slow it down, it ceases to be Ogre. It's why I'm trying to think about it in terms of 'mission modules'...a completely separate entity from the Ninja itself, and am limiting it [in my mind] to the Ninjas, because of their highly specialized roles.

One module lets it mount a Shuriken. Another module might let it mount a Bushin [an LT that, when deployed, sensors can't tell the difference between it or a real Ninja until the shooting starts]. Who knows what anyone else will dream up.

The bit about cargo capacity is something someone [I think ColBosch, when he made the Golem thread] initially proposed for de-fiddlying the Vulcan / Ninja / Golem cargo rules into a single unified "internal cargo bay" rule, as right now what any given unit can carry within itself is completely arbitrary. When inspiration strikes, I've picked at looking for patterns and doing the math.

I've got it to where it sounds strange at first read [because 'Size 1' is everything up to and including a box truck], but works with the existing stats for all currently-canon cargo carriers [Truck, Hovertruck, Vulcan, arguably Ninja, and Train]. But since I don't want to steal his thunder, he gets first dibs.
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Old 10-24-2018, 05:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Yes, I was the most recent to propose a unified "internal cargo bay" rule. (I can't discount that someone else might have come up with it before.) I think hammering out something that covers all units that carry stuff inside them would reduce fiddliness and the need for special rules, and ultimately save wordcount and frustration.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:01 PM   #25
wolf90
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Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
While I was against their inclusion as the standard Ninja rules in the main rulebook, I would not mind seeing them as options in a future project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by offsides View Post
That said, I personally LOVE fiddly, detailed optional/alternate rules, and would be happy to see them (and even other modular equipment rules!) as ether an Ogrezine article or some other optional supplement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
They were pretty fiddly [there's GP speaking through me again] as written, but some of the ideas were really neat and I'd like to see them come back. <snip> If you're game I'll hit you up in private.
Well, I now know what my article for (the entirely theoretical, at this time,) Ogrezine III will be!

And by all means, knock on my digital door!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAmishStig View Post
The bit about cargo capacity is something someone [I think ColBosch, when he made the Golem thread] initially proposed <snip> But since I don't want to steal his thunder, he gets first dibs.
You two work it out, because I think there might be something there that is entirely different from the Ninja stuff and well worth seeing.

Which brings me to a comment on Ogrezine and submissions. If you have a great idea, write it up and send it in. Don't worry about if we're pushing for a current issue of Ogrezine or not. I will find a way to use good material. And perhaps more importantly, this is a little bit of a chicken or the egg issue - you don't need to wait for an Ogrezine to be announced to produce articles; quite the opposite, in fact. Having a fistful of great articles makes it much easier for me to promote the idea of another Ogrezine! So keep them coming!

D.
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Old 10-24-2018, 09:46 PM   #26
Tim Kauffman
 
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Well, I now know what my article for (the entirely theoretical, at this time,) Ogrezine III will be!
D.
:)

Here's as far as I took the Combine Stealth program started back in 2012 in the wake of OGRE DE. It includes images of FanMade Stealth units with WIP stats.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...57688275408641

Here's a link to my thread on the NINJA replete with all manner of material compiled in a orderly fashion here in the forums:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=148488

I mention this because the NINJA is now officially being considered as WIP material and if any of this material can aid that effort in any way, so be it. That's why I worked on it and posted the material. It's too much to be sending in and mostly WIP ideas, although the line artwork for the units are probably final.

Drew, consider the material at this link as WIP ideas awaiting feedback if you have any. If you see anything that has any merit as something that I should send in as-is or with changes as a OGREzine submission, please let me know.

...KEEP THOSE TREAD UNITS ROLLING...
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Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 10-25-2018 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 10-24-2018, 10:41 PM   #27
TheAmishStig
 
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Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

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Yes, I was the most recent to propose a unified "internal cargo bay" rule. (I can't discount that someone else might have come up with it before.) I think hammering out something that covers all units that carry stuff inside them would reduce fiddliness and the need for special rules, and ultimately save wordcount and frustration.
Check your PMs. If I'm barking up the right tree, that's a pattern for how capacity scales across Size.
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Old 10-25-2018, 10:38 AM   #28
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Default Re: Vulcans and Friends counter sheets

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Check your PMs. If I'm barking up the right tree, that's a pattern for how capacity scales across Size.
I got your PM. I'll definitely give them a read through this evening!
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