How to keep melee weapons relevant in a setting with "guns"?

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by Edges

I thought this only applied to Fright Checks and not to Will rolls in general.

The Rule of 14 only applies to Fright Checks (Campaigns, p. 360) just as the Rule of 16 only applies to supernatural attacks (Campaigns, p. 349) and the Rule of 20 only applies to defaults from superhuman attributes (Campaigns, p. 344).

[hal]

Originally Posted by Edges

I thought this only applied to Fright Checks and not to Will rolls in general.

The relevant information regards to fright checks and combat...

Page 34 Cool under fire.


Rather than quote the entire paragraph, the relevant information is that any time someone is the target of a near miss (a miss by 2 or 1) (that's the big one) or other situations - the GM can require a Fright Check roll (ie a will saving roll) with penalties such as Rate of Fire bonus etc.

I also have a house rule that I use for getting someone to obey orders or to engage in suicidal behavior during combat, which is a version of a fright check roll, where I use Roll VS will. Even people with a high Will stat will not necessarily place themselves in undue danger just because they were given an order to do so, or because they (the players) aren't really in such a firefight and think they can just do what they want despite their character not having unfazeable as an advantage.

Different strokes for different folks.

:)

[hal]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The Rule of 14 only applies to Fright Checks (Campaigns, p. 360) just as the Rule of 16 only applies to supernatural attacks (Campaigns, p. 349) and the Rule of 20 only applies to defaults from superhuman attributes (Campaigns, p. 344).

True enough - but certain situations in combat ARE by definition, fright checks. My bad.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Didn't I only just see a post with a way of doing this? Something along the lines of WM/TBMs get 1 DR vs bullets per point of melee skill, increasing at +1 DR per yard distance. I'm sure it was a week or two ago.

Not that I recall that recently, but you may be thinking of this thread from a year ago or so: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=149327 which may have some relevant ideas.

[hal]

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

The "take them alive" and "don't hit innocent bystanders" rules are also good, since I like Heroicness.....except that only applies to PCs. Enemies don't have to follow those rules, at least logically.

I'm actually thinking something like a blend of Modern Fantasy, Standard Fantasy, and Pulp Adventure. Meaning cities aren't going to be the only focus, so any attempt to restrict guns based on city environments isn't going to help all the time.

So, what is the magic system you're using? GURPS MAGIC, RITUAL MAGIC or SORCERY or what?

I'm trying to remember the movie with Dennis Hopper in it, where the current tech level was effectively late 5 or early 6 - and magic was a functional thing within society. It had been something in use for a reasonable amount of time that non-users of magic were thought of as quaint.

If this is a secret magic campaign, then most gunmen aren't going to be aware that magic may render their firearms inoperative. If Reverse Missile as a spell exists, then using a weapon against yourself is suicide. Now if everyone is wearing "Deflect missile" charms to guard against a reverse missile, then some guns might very well be used initially to see if they can be used. If they can't, then the old standby weapon at the belt becomes more important.

[AlexanderHowl]

You might be thinking of Witch Hunt. Another one to consider is Cast a Deadly Spell, which I think is the prequel.

[hal]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

You might be thinking of Witch Hunt. Another one to consider is Cast a Deadly Spell, which I think is the prequel.

Cast a Deadly Spell is the one. There have been plenty of movies that I've watched and thought "Hmmm, I wonder if I could run this with the serial numbers filed off for a GURPS run" and then decided "Nahhhhh"

The only one I came close to was the Ninth Gate - with the further modification that there was no "Correct" copy or way to do the gate, but that any who tried were doomed to failure.

I take that back, I did run a Modern Fantasy campaign based on THE SKELETON KEY combined with SUPERNATURAL (TV series). The players characters stumble into an old man claiming to be a young woman (my group hadn't seen the movie by the by with Kate Hudson). They start to investigate and run into Sam and Dean Winchester. My wife LOVES Dean the character when it comes to watching him, but HATES him for his womanizing ways when she's the one interacting with him (go figure). TO make matters even more fun? The most prized character wasn't Dean or Sam, but Bobby! Right down to having to call one of the player characters "Idjit" for being an idiot.

In any event, the gun play in the Modern Fantasy was not the big issue, getting hands on a good supply of salt, old books, and researching data was the main focus.

To this day? Perhaps the ONE thing I remember fondly of GURPS VOODOO was the time one player got his hands (as a police officer) on some old Latin texts from a criminal practicing black magic. The police officer takes it to a church priest to translate some latin, and runs into issues because the priest tells him the Book is forbidden and banned. The priest later sends the information to the Vatican, who in turn, send a hit team to recover the book AND discredit the police officer. Again, no real gun play - just interaction, mystery, and trying to avoid the fall out of the authorities who hold no stock in the supernatural.

[acrosome]

Another way to nerf guns is to use the blow-through damage rules but NOT the bleeding rules.

I think the most "realistic" way is cultural/legal, though. It's pretty easy to imagine some sort of futuristic setting in which firearms are heavily restricted, leaving criminals, adventurers, and other murder-hobos to use martial arts and melee weapons. (But then they'd restrict melee weapons, and anyone studying a martial art would be under suspicion...) In a restrictive enough society even the police might not carry firearms- witness the UK, where this is typical. Vortex ring guns and other "stunners" become the norm for them and security types, in addition to the ubiquitous billy clubs, and when the GM eventually does put an actual firearm into the hands of an opponent NPC the PCs will take notice.

As you might imagine, it would be pretty hard to smuggle a firearm off of your starship when you immediately have to walk through a millimeter-radar array in customs. In an airlock.

Really, if most of High-Tech gets used as-is there is almost no way to avoid highly restrictive panopticon states. Tools that can double as weapons might become popular.

[lwcamp]

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

Wouldn't that just mean people would use bullets made of non-lead stuff, even if they aren't as good? I know silver bullets shot from a gun don't do as much damage (because they over-penetrate), but what about if you used an [ulr=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun]air gun[/url]?

I would put more faith in "The weapon has to be at least This Big": bullets are too small to hold enchantments (at least for long: consider a gun mage who can enchant them as soon as they are about to fire).

They are actually doing pretty good with copper bullets these days, since lead bullets are being increasingly restricted because of concern over lead toxicity. The copper bullets actually expand quite well, at least for rifles. And of course, shotgun shells are mostly steel or hevi-shot these days - lead is on the out.

But there's also the part about having the bullet be hand made. You can make a sword by hand and use it over and over. You can make an arrowhead by hand and it will perform nearly as well as a modern broadhead, and not be too expensive. But to make a silver bullet is a lot of work, and requires either special skills or a lot of trial and error
http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articl...rbullets.shtml .
Probably the easiest way to do it is to lathe one out, but as the link above demonstrates you can cast them if you put enough effort into it. And bullets are more fiddly than arrowheads - make it wrong and it might jam or ruin your gun. For anything other than shotguns, I might have home-made bullets require an armory roll per shot, failure means the ammo under-performs, jams, or breaks the gun (especially if I'm trying to nerf guns in the setting). And making a properly expanding bullet out of silver or copper would be extra difficult, slap a significant penalty on the armory check.

So now if you want a bullet of spontaneous human combustion, you can make one with considerable expense and effort. Or you can get a combustion arrow or sling stone for much cheaper, or a sword of combustion that can be used over and over again.

Luke

[AlexanderHowl]

You can also make a bullet out of bronze or brass (which actually prevents the warping of the barrel during full auto because of the low friction coefficient).