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Old 03-20-2008, 04:17 PM   #11
Forr
 
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

Book-Learned Wisdom is a very nice touch. The Scholar has the versatility he needs without having a lot of points invested in skills that would be only be useful from time to time.

I have one question. Can manuals be memorized for Book-Learned Wisdom purposes? If so, a Scholar with Photographic Memory could keep a vast library in his head, which could be recalled to fill his BLW slots. Even if I rule that it takes just as much time to remember the manuals as to read them, the Scholar still avoids the problem of logistics.
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

The idea is that he needs the books. It's supposed to be a logistics problem. While Photographic Memory is nice, I'm sure, I don't think memorizing actual cartloads of books verbatim is in the spirit of the trait. If you want to do that, learn the skills permanently. :)

I think the ability is pretty swell even with the need for books, since the scholar could in principle learn hitherto unknown skills from books found down in the dungeon, giving the party a decided advantage as they delve deeper into the ruins. That underlines something important, though, which is that even more than most adventurers, the scholar requires a GM who respects the player's choice of roles. If the GM waves off obscure languages, Area Knowledge skills, weird new Hidden Lore specialties, etc., and never puts books among the treasures, then scholars won't be very useful . . . they'll be a lot like wizards in no-mana areas.

The artificer and scholar both are basically designed around the theory "N times per game session, the PC can solve a problem found in the dungeon using only materials/knowledge that's in the dungeon, regardless of the limits on other PCs (noisy singing, sanctity, unspoiled nature, mana, etc.)." This is balanced in both cases by the need to carry heavy packs of expensive stuff around.
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Cool, thanks for the heads-up.

I'm considering banning clerics from my game, and the artificer is a potential replacement for the "walking band-aid" aspect, as well as having a nice flavour.

-Max
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

Wow!

That was the most fun 17-pages I have read in a long, long time. The "Gettin' Funky With the Stylus" box was worth the price of admission!

Thanks Kromm!
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Old 03-20-2008, 06:57 PM   #15
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

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Originally Posted by KDLadage
Wow!

That was the most fun 17-pages I have read in a long, long time. The "Gettin' Funky With the Stylus" box was worth the price of admission!
Agreed. The whole section on scrolls was well worth the pdf's price. And it reminded me of a scroll variant I once saw in a few issues of the Gold Digger comics: Mana scrolls, which perpetually regenerate after every use, allowing a spellcaster to use it once a day.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:49 PM   #16
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

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Originally Posted by Bruno
That's a bizarrely unexpected title, and I'm quite unable to guess what the specific focus of that installment will be. Off to read its description page...
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:50 PM   #17
Peter Knutsen
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Originally Posted by Kromm
Well, I had already decided that DF 4 would cover some of the "missing templates" from my original outline, and since people had actually asked for learned characters here several times, the choice was easy. :)
IIRC GURPS DF underplays knowledge skills a little more than I'd have preferred. Hopefully this new PDF will expand on them a little, and try to make them more useful.

Ideally, it'll strongly differentiate a Wizard with fair IQ Magery 5 or 6 from a Sage with very high IQ and 4 levels (or more!) of some Scholar Talent.
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:59 PM   #18
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
The idea is that he needs the books. It's supposed to be a logistics problem. While Photographic Memory is nice, I'm sure, I don't think memorizing actual cartloads of books verbatim is in the spirit of the trait. If you want to do that, learn the skills permanently. :)
That is what actual, proper, real photographic memory is supposed to let you do. But trying to simulate that in an RPG, while avoiding massive balance problems, isn't easy. I haven't found a way yet.
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen
That is what actual, proper, real photographic memory is supposed to let you do. But trying to simulate that in an RPG, while avoiding massive balance problems, isn't easy. I haven't found a way yet.
Heh - GURPS 3rd e version of eidetic memory might have simulated it to some decree - but of course with balance problems..
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:37 PM   #20
Peter Knutsen
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Default Re: Dungeon Fantasy 4: Sages is released!

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Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen
That is what actual, proper, real photographic memory is supposed to let you do. But trying to simulate that in an RPG, while avoiding massive balance problems, isn't easy. I haven't found a way yet.
Actually, I just came up with a partial solution that might work for GURPS.

Wild Talent can be taken with an Enhancement that allows the character to pay 1 CP to "retain" the skill after he has used it. The solution is simply to replace the Enhancement with a Limitation that says that rentention is mandatory - the character has to pay 1 CP to render the skill permanent, every time he uses Wild Talent. The special effect is that the character read it in a book somewhere, or overheard a couple of professionals discussing work methods.

How much would that be? IIRC Voluntary Retention is +25%, so Mandatory Retention could be -20%? Would that be balanced?

I can see a case being made for -30% or even-40%, since with mandatory retention, the player will be somewhat reluctant to actually spend his Wild Talent usages. With retention optional or unavailable, it's just good fun to use Wild Talent, but when each use forces you to buy something for 1 CP, it gets tense.

Then on the other manipulatory appendage, -40% makes Wild Talent cost only 12 CPs, or 14 CPs with -30%.

Also, isn't there already an Advantage that lets players do that? IIRC it costs 15 CPs, or maybe 10, but I can't remember whether it allows in-the-field spending of CPs, or only gives the player huge freedom of character advancement between sessions.
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