11-08-2019, 10:16 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
I think it's supposed to be that, but in general the point of an incapacitating weapon is to disable without killing. If we assume the shock is localized it doesn't actually disable, so it fails. If the shock is non-localized, it can disable, but between the amount of normal damage it does and the chance of heart attack, it's not very good at doing so without killing.
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11-08-2019, 10:43 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
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OTOH, UT doesn't otherwise have a ranged electroshock weapon, does it? The stun wand and zap glove are both melee.
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11-08-2019, 11:03 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
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The Stingray suffers from translation problems. The oriignal 3e version was more useful due to different Electricity rules.
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Fred Brackin |
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11-08-2019, 01:16 PM | #14 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
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My question now is why the half damage value assigned to the capacitor bullet, and why it in addition, suffers an armor divisor of (.25)? That makes the round do 1/8th normal damage overall relative to standard ammunition. Frangible rounds only have an armor divisor of (.5) - and they are meant to disintegrate upon impact (see pg 167 of High Tech). Is a capacitor that much worse than Frangible rounds? What is even more ironic is that the new publication of GURPS HIGH TECH ELECTRICITY AND ELECTRONICS classifies certain types of electrical damage by what causes the damage. Capacitors are treated as non-lethal damage! <shrug> If I were to house rule this? Armor Divisor changes to (.5). If copper sheathed, maybe (.75) Damage type is non-lethal for non-vitals hits to the torso. Damage type is Lethal for vitals hit to the torso. Still not too happy with this, but will mull it over some more. |
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11-08-2019, 09:17 PM | #15 | |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
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However, it fills a different tactical role than a bullet payload. Would two simultaneous stingray hits cause electromuscular disruption? Could you have a hypothetical stingray round that splits in two to give the required separation? Or that carries outrigger electrodes?
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Collaborative Settings: Cyberpunk: Duopoly Nation Space Opera: Behind the King's Eclipse And heaps of forum collabs, 30+ and counting! |
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11-09-2019, 10:36 AM | #16 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
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11-09-2019, 12:52 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
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The more I look into this issue of why are the stats of the 10mm stingray round as they are, the more I grow dissatisfied with the rules structure and concepts. What is the density of the capacitor relative to lead? This is needed to determine what the "bullet" weight of the capacitor will be if it is to mimic the 10mm bullet in shape and volume and such. The mass of the bullet will determine its actual weight, and thus, its damage upon impact. Frangible rounds have an armor divisor of (.5) and they're designed to disintegrate upon impact (right down to its component parts being smaller bb like material or even clay like material if GURPS HIGH TECH is to be believed). All told? Halving the damage because the bullet mass is halved does not compute. For example, a 10mm 150 grain bullet travelling at 1250 feet per second will result in 3d6-1 damage. Halving the bullet mass to 75 grains, will result in 2d6+0 damage (all other things kept the same). The same powder used to propel the 150 grain bullet will cause the lighter weight bullet to travel faster, so all things won't be the same. Best as I can research thus far? Frangible rounds introduced in GURPS HIGH TECH, have an armor divisor of (.5). The capacitor rounds are worse than frangible rounds that are designed to fragment upon impact and lose their penetrative powers against even thick plate glass or aluminum. Why would the capacitor based bullet be any less sturdy than rounds designed to fragment? Armor piercing rounds have their damage halved - but that would not make sense for the armor divisor aspect that is treated as (.25) If capacitors have the same density as energy cells - then this would be my train of thought: 75 grains = 75 grains/7000 grains/lbs or 0.011 lbs. The closest thing to this weight in GURPS ULTRATECH for power cells is 2xA cells (which weighs in as .01 lbs for two). Are two A cells sufficient to cause that kind of a "Surge"? If the answer is yes, then wow. If the answer is no, then - per the internal logic of GURPS ULTRATECH for 4e, the Stingray rounds should not be a viable option in any campaign unless it is strictly cinematic where the GM doesn't care about internal logic/consistency. Much as I hate to say this, unless there are better answers than what I have come up with thus far (and I'm hoping someone will point out the flaws in my logic!!!), I'd have to disallow this for my current "in the year 2049" cyberpunk campaign. |
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11-09-2019, 03:50 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
Stingray rounds should be compared to explosive or chemical class munitions, not bullets. Of course. 10mm HEMP do 8d(5) and cost less than stingray rounds.
I think stingray rounds in previous editions were piezoelectric, though that would realistically mean their electric damage would be somewhat linked to their kinetic damage. |
11-09-2019, 04:03 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
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Granted, the original stats on the 10mm stingray had them doing only 1d6-3, the follow up attack value wasn't dependent upon bypassing armor, but instead, gave the victim of such an attack a HT saving roll based on a bonus for every 5 DR the victim was wearing at the time. This implies that the electrical attack went THROUGH the armor. The next thing to question now, is how well the rules for 10mm HEMP stack up. ;) |
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11-09-2019, 05:54 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: 10mm stingray round - how does it work?
Realistically, stingray rounds, as described, are nonsense; an electric shock requires a completed circuit, which means either two contact points (which they don't have) or a large static charge on the bullet (which will require a specially constructed gun and be generally pretty hazardous for the user), and if you want to just disrupt electronics, EMP rounds (UT157) are both more effective and more realistic.
A binary bullet that splits and hits two points probably isn't less realistic than tangler rounds, and might actually use similar tech, since if it attached itself to the target it could have a continuous effect for multiple turns, similar to a stun wand. |
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