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Old 07-17-2020, 10:48 PM   #1
SchmugginsTheDwarve
 
Join Date: May 2011
Default Can a fighter with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

I'm guessing no, because a throw from a lock requires Judo (Throw) or a lock technique. Since the only valid targets for Clinch are the head, neck, or torso and Head Lock only defaults from Judo/Wrestling skills (not raw DX or ST) that means a throw from a lock is invalid for the striking hyper-specialist. Am I correct?

Thank you!

EDIT: Changed striker > fighter. I'm not referring to the "Striker" advantage, I mean a fighter with striking Skills only (and the Clinch Perk).

Last edited by SchmugginsTheDwarve; 07-17-2020 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 07-17-2020, 11:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

A Striker can only hit not grab as its not a manipulator. So no Clinch or arm lock.
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Old 07-17-2020, 11:51 PM   #3
SchmugginsTheDwarve
 
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

Oh! I was ambiguous with my term and shouldn't have used the word "striker". I meant a fighter with only striking skills (say, Brawling or Karate) and Clinch. Not a "Striker" as in the Advantage.
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Old 07-18-2020, 12:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

Ah!
Well Brawling at least lets you grapple but is not sophisticated enough for an Arm Lock. However you could try adding a Skill Adaptation perk, youll need GM permission but its not unbalanced.
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Old 07-18-2020, 09:52 AM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

Brawling does not let you Grapple, it is specifically a striking skill, not a grappling skill (Basic, p. 370, and Martial Arts, p. 55).
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Old 07-18-2020, 10:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Brawling does not let you Grapple, it is specifically a striking skill, not a grappling skill (Basic, p. 370, and Martial Arts, p. 55).
Yeah, but see Eye-Gouging (Martial Arts p. 71) and various entries for Bite.
Its not a very good grappling skill but though it may not be a Grappling skill (term of art, per p. B370) but its used to grab an opponent, especially by animals. Also Technical Grappling gives it an Average trained ST progression.
Its like saying Sumo Wrestling is not a Striking skill but can be used to hit or strike someone.
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Old 07-18-2020, 10:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

Brawling cannot grapple. You have to use DX, Clinch, or a grappling skill to initiate a grapple. While Brawling improves biting, bites are not technically a grapple because they do not halve hit location modifiers. The grapple is a special effect of the biting attack and not a product of the Brawling skill, as Biting Mastery allows for Karate to have the same effects.
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Old 07-19-2020, 08:54 AM   #8
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

Do note OP is referencing the Clinch Perk (MA51), which is a special case of Skill Adaptation. It explicitly allows you to use Brawling, Boxing, or Karate to grapple, but only against the head, neck, or torso of a standing foe. Personally, I don't feel it should allow for a Head Lock (the only one that could possibly apply given the hit location restrictions) or a throw from a lock (if you do have a grappling skill, but your Clinch-enhanced striking skill is better), but that's probably the GM's call.
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: Can a striker with Clinch but no Judo/Wrestling points execute throws from locks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Yeah, but see Eye-Gouging (Martial Arts p. 71) and various entries for Bite.
MA67 also mentions for Armed Grapple "A one-handed weapon other than a cloak can only grapple if you grip it in two hands first"

If you can do that with literally any weapon then it doesn't seem like a complete stretch to allow this to default to unarmed striking skills as well as armed melee weapon skills. Like for example instead of striking with a forearm attack, to grab your own wrist and use that forearm to push an opponent around like you might with a small baton. Or just use an already 2-handed attack like "Two Handed Punch" as the basis?
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