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Old 03-13-2019, 10:51 PM   #1
Decadence
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Default Super Strength Alternative?

So I have given a little thought to an alternate way of handling super strength. Other than Super Effort, would a enhanced Strength advantage suit supers well? Basically modifying the enhanced move advantage and basing it around your st, so 25 CP/level? So double the ST attribute for each level you buy into it. What do you all think? Keep in mind I am relatively new to GURPS.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:54 PM   #2
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

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Originally Posted by Decadence View Post
So I have given a little thought to an alternate way of handling super strength. Other than Super Effort, would a enhanced Strength advantage suit supers well? Basically modifying the enhanced move advantage and basing it around your st, so 25 CP/level? So double the ST attribute for each level you buy into it. What do you all think? Keep in mind I am relatively new to GURPS.
Enhanced Move doubles your Basic Move. I would be tempted to have Enhanced ST double your Basic Lift, which would multiply your ST x 1.4, approximately (two levels of Enhanced ST would double your ST).

I'd recommend not increasing your HP as part of this. Moving fast boosts your collision damage, but doesn't give you more HP to help survive it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:43 AM   #3
tbone
 
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Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

If you'd like to play with a fully worked-out scheme of the sort you mention, try this:
http://www.gamesdiner.com/rules-nugg...er-cost-for-st

In short, it uses a clever pricing scheme (credit as noted; not my invention!) that keeps normal GURPS ST scores and effects unchanged, but reduces costs at higher levels so that every 50 points multiplies BL by about 2. Every 300 points multiplies ST by exactly 10, and BL by exactly 100.

Benefits:
  • With this sort of logarithmic effect, costs down in the human range are unaffected, but the cost of Superman-level strength is vastly reduced.
  • It works for both supers and just plain big creatures - and actually makes pricing the latter simple. Spending 50 points on ST per +1 SM yields realistic ST (to be further adjusted if you like, of course).
  • With this scheme, there should be no need for GURPS' SM-based cost adjustment to ST, meaning that small complication can be dropped.

Drawbacks:
  • Unavoidably, a varying cost for ST means figuring final cost will take a few more seconds than a nice, simple 10 pts/+1!

Anyway. I don't claim it's what you're looking for, but you might find it interesting.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:51 AM   #4
Lord Azagthoth
 
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Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

The benefit of using Enhanced ST as an advantage is that you can add modifiers to it.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:37 AM   #5
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

I'd recommend KYOS though you really need to adjust a few other things if you're dropping in higher ST damage and logarithmic lifting capacity, and there is a working thread here with some example characters.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=161407
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:32 AM   #6
Culture20
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

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Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth View Post
The benefit of using Enhanced ST as an advantage is that you can add modifiers to it.
I always allow players to add modifiers to any attribute increase or decrease. They rarely do.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:24 AM   #7
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

I find that a combination of Lifting ST, Striking ST, Energy Reserve, and Optional Rule (Godlike Extra Effort) works out well. For example, if you had Lifting ST+10 (Reliable+10, +50%) [45], Striking ST+10 (Reliable+10, +50%) [75], ER 20 [60], and Optional Rule (Godlike Extra Effort) [1], you could increase Lifting ST or Striking ST by +100 with a 90% chance of success (a character with Will 20 could increase by +200 for the same FP cost). In total, the cost 181 CP, which is less than the comparable Super-ST cost of 300 CP (the ER can also be used for other powers). Of course, Super-ST costs less FP per use, so there is a balance that exists.
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:44 PM   #8
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

I prefer KYOS over Super Effort on ST, I have found it very affordable and reasonable on damage.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:11 PM   #9
Gef
 
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Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I find that a combination of Lifting ST, Striking ST, Energy Reserve, and Optional Rule (Godlike Extra Effort) works out well.
And I find it clunky. No disrespect. I recognize the same problem, and I find every solution I've tried so far to be clunky.

The way I'd state the problem is that ST beyond the human range stops being an attribute and starts being a power, and there really is a law of diminishing returns. Say you can carry a ton, in your backpack. The backpack can't hold a ton. A backpack that could wouldn't fit through a door. What about a dekaton? It's one thing if you can fly, with the weight dangling beneath you, but if you can't, how do you balance the load? If you try to lift a 10-tone truck, do you raise the whole vehicle or does a piece break off in your hand? The more ST you have beyond the human range, the less opportunity you have to use it.

What I initially did in my last supers campaign was clunkier than t-bone's idea. Later I changed back to rules-as-written, which is still clunky but here's how it works:

I was more concerned about damage than lift; I wanted the strongest bricks to be able to punch through the front armor of a modern tank, around DR 2k. Heck, the mentalists could mind-control the crew.

It was possible with a focused brick build to get about ST 80 - that's 140pt with a max load of limitations. Per Technical Grappling, Wrestling at DX+4 gives Trained ST +30%, or 104, to calculate control points, and Trained by a Master doubles the control points. You can grab both legs and one hand, for effective ST 176 in the grapple, and improve the grapple to maximum control points over a couple of turns. Then use your free and to punch with a triple-strength Power Blow, using the grab-and-smash rule to convert accumulated control points to extra damage. The punch itself would get +2 per die for Karate and +1 per die for Blunt Claws and +1 per die for All-Out Attack. You also need a Breaking Blow to divide damage by 5. The Power Blow takes -10 for triple strength, but you can take your time, and the Breaking Blow takes -10 for being instantaneous, no Concentrate maneuver, which is why you can do it with Power Blow.

Obviously, you need ludicrously high Breaking Blow and Power Blow skills, which takes Will (Accessibility: Breaking and Power Blow Only), and the Perk Attribute Substitution: Breaking Blow based on Will. See? Clunky. But it does allow a 500pt brick to punch through a tank's front armor using RAW, and it gets there at lower cost than Super Effort.

GEF
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:09 AM   #10
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Super Strength Alternative?

By the definitions of Supers, a 500 CP character should not take out a tank (that is a d-scale or c-scale type hero activity). Spiderman should not try to take out tanks, that is more Thor or Hulk territory.
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