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Old 12-10-2018, 04:05 PM   #41
Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2
 
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

If your reboot is going to include the X-Men, then you'll have to deal with the whole "mutant issue" baggage.

Why just mutants? And how do Superman and Wonder Woman avoid being accidentally designated as mutants? (That whole "sentient mutant-hating disease" thing just doesn't wash with me.) The irrationality of mutants being singled out for mass bigotry while all other super-beings are accepted on individual merit can warp the entire world background. Not to mention the Sentinels.

If you're wanting to include the X-Men, you'll have to decide whether or not there is a "mutant issue", how it affects the DC Heroes in the world, and if no "mutant issue", how would the whole X-Men franchise have to be adjusted? It's a big deal.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:37 PM   #42
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Spider-Man was routinely called a freak, even after it was known he was not a mutant. And Wonder Man, with obviously non-human features, was a celebrity with few detractors. In the Marvel universe, some people have a belief that mutants are the next species of homo sapiens and that they’ll do the same thing that homo sapiens sapiens did to homo sapiens neaderthalensis (supplant, either by killing or interbreeding), and some mutants have explicitly made such overtures, increasing public paranoid racism.
Humans who have been altered by science or accident of fate aren’t born with their powers, so the public doesn’t believe them to be another (sub)species, mostly because very few people know that the altered humans are usually genetically altered and usually bear mutant children (Franklin Storm being the most well known).
In a mixed universe, aliens to human society like Superman, Thor, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and the Sub-Mariner would be viewed by their alien status first; Namor is a mutant, but people see him as an Atlantean instead of half homo sapiens superior.
Aliens tend to get this treatment in DC, and sometimes metahumans in general, but they’re always short term stories or isolated bigots instead of a systemic culture of hate.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:35 AM   #43
naloth
 
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

There was actually a good FF story line of how Reed made the FF celebrities deliberately, knowing that they would either be feared or celebrated. It was a secret PR campaign that the others were not aware of.

As it was the start of the heroic era, it laid groundwork for other celebrity heroes and teams. Having WW2 hero Captain America take over the Avengers certainly helped solidify their status as public heroes as well...
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
how do Superman and Wonder Woman avoid being accidentally designated as mutants?
"We're non-human aliens, not mutated humans"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
The irrationality of mutants being singled out for mass bigotry while all other super-beings are accepted on individual merit can warp the entire world background.
Spider-Man has been the target of persecution by the police, I wouldn't be surprised if some people thought he was a mutant since he doesn't give exposees about where his abilities come from.

The best basis of comparison would be the Fantastic Four. In their case, they have public identities and because of the "cosmic rays" origin, people don't have the same "children could be born this way!" fear as with spontaneous mutants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
Wonder Man, with obviously non-human features, was a celebrity with few detractors.
He's a consented experiment who got strength/durabilty so it's a similar vein as Captain America I guess. If we compare them to someone like Colossus, there isn't any fear of "he will impregnate a generation of women with metal babies who will go on a killing spree" because experiments aren't hereditary.
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Old 12-11-2018, 02:43 PM   #45
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

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Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2 View Post
If your reboot is going to include the X-Men, then you'll have to deal with the whole "mutant issue" baggage.

Why just mutants?
  1. Mutants were the most common type of superhuman back in the day. In order to be a hated minority, a group must be sufficiently numerous that they will be regarded as a group rather than as individuals.
  2. Magneto is a moron. He first introduced mutants into general public awareness with acts of flashy public criminality. Other supervillains generally do not claim to be acting on behalf of anyone except themselves. Magneto painted the entire population with infamy while defining them as a group in the public mind.
  3. Xavier is a moron. Is there any good reason whatsoever to exclude teenagers who had other origins from his school/team?
  4. Mutants come in two flavours. The ones who are phenotypically odd (disfigured) at birth and may or may not gradually develop powers and the ones who are normal enough-look but suddenly manifest superpowers as teenagers, often when under hormonally driven stress. Or to put it another way, a mutant frequently makes his debut as a super by hospitalizing or killing another student in school.
  5. "Homo superior". Is there really any better way to put homo inferior's backs up?
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:33 PM   #46
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Spiderman was mutated by a spider bite. He's literally more of a mutant than super powered individuals who inherited their abilities from their parents.
And the irony of Magneto being effectively a type of neo-Nazi is his whole shtick.

X-Men have very different themes from the 4-color Superman, etc. so I don't think they work well in the same setting. Other than very careful one-offs.
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:15 PM   #47
Plane
 
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

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And the irony of Magneto being effectively a type of neo-Nazi is his whole shtick.
You had to
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:25 PM   #48
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

A lot of the problems mentioned stem from the Silver Age, when the antagonists were required basically by law to call themselves "Evil", usually in a mustache-twirling manner. This is prevalent in many of the groups from that time period: Masters of Evil, Emissaries of Evil, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, etc.

(This is one problem I've encountered with my Reboot project. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants can easily drop the "Evil" part, being simply "Brotherhood of Mutants", but "Masters of Evil", while an iconic name, just strikes me as dumb. Why call yourself "Evil"? ... Of course, I gave my one villain group in my Shadowguard game the name "The Terrors", but hey, they're in the service of a guy who literally calls himself "Mr. Sinister". Which the party has commented on multiple times.)
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:28 AM   #49
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

“The Masters” works for a villain group intent on political domination. Unless the campaign has a character with a golf theme; then it could be confusing.
“We’ve seen your recent bad press from the DA accusing you of robbing the fifth national bank, Caddy-Man. How would you like to join The Masters?!”
“Boy would I!”
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:27 PM   #50
Plane
 
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Default Re: Marvel/DC World-Character Supers Building

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
A lot of the problems mentioned stem from the Silver Age, when the antagonists were required basically by law to call themselves "Evil", usually in a mustache-twirling manner. This is prevalent in many of the groups from that time period: Masters of Evil, Emissaries of Evil, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, etc.

(This is one problem I've encountered with my Reboot project. The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants can easily drop the "Evil" part, being simply "Brotherhood of Mutants", but "Masters of Evil", while an iconic name, just strikes me as dumb. Why call yourself "Evil"? ... Of course, I gave my one villain group in my Shadowguard game the name "The Terrors", but hey, they're in the service of a guy who literally calls himself "Mr. Sinister". Which the party has commented on multiple times.)
I could see some villains doing this because perhaps someone else called them "evil" first and they're just "owning it" or appropriating the term to be self-empowering.

X-Men 4 on the cover and credits page talks about "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" (they use quotes) and on page 9 Xavier says "the evil mutants!, page 19 Marvel Girl only refers to the group as "Magneto's men", page 21 Prof X again "the evil mutants are as powerful as we"...

Stan's note on the final (23rd) page refers to "the powerful evil mutants" but strangely there's no mention I could find in this issue within the actual text of "brotherhood" or similar. Can anyone find an example of BOEM being used in the actual dialogue of characters, and if so, self-referentially?
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