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Old 04-19-2018, 11:02 AM   #1
Algarik
 
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Default Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Hello everyone, next month I’ll personify a recruit hunter from the Malleus Maleficarum, from Hunter: The vigil and I’m looking for roleplaying tips to personify a catholic priest in a live game.

So just to give you some context, we are currently playing in an alternate version of my hometown, Trois-Rivières, in 1938. Think Shadowrun mixed with world of Darkness in a pre-world war 2 setting. Originally the game had us start with some powers, from second, sight and we had to hide from mysterious people that hunted us because of our special gift.

I’ve been playing my character for a year now. He is a Russian refugee that fled from URSS during summer 1935 to avoid getting captured by the authorities. From 1935 to 1937 he lived in Trois-Rivières slum as a ‘’professional’’ boxer and brewery owner with a couple of employees he managed to get thanks to a lucky opportunity. He tried to lead a normal live, while trying his best to contain the numerous dark and supernatural threats he had to deal with until he and all his other gifted friends got captured by a secret Canadian military organisation. The organisation imprisoned us and runned some very sadistic and inhumane tests on his friends and him to test their powers. He was rather lucky and only lost his little finger joint. Although he was lucky, couple of his friends weren’t and almost lost their mind to those test and that hit him hard. Fortunately he and most of his friends, that were still alive, got rescued by other allies, including Father Dubois, a hunter priest from the Malleus Maleficarum.

Now eight months are going to pass, and we have to describe what’s going to happen to our character. So, because my character was trying to get really resentful at all the evil supernatural being and his own powers for preventing him from living a normal live, I choose to have him train with Father Dubois, to become a hunter. He was already faithful before the prison event, and I felt like it could be a nice twist to have him turn into a Hunter with some power bestowed by God.

For those of you who have seen Preacher series, I intend to roleplay him a bit like Jesse Custer, an atypical priest that still has hard time letting his rough background behind and who’s not against getting his hand dirty if it’s for the greater good.

I don’t really have trouble with the character attitude and general roleplaying, because, like I said previously, I’ve been playing the character for whole year. Although my Christian knowledge is lacking, and I need help with prayers ideas that would fits for a catholic priest-hunter and maybe things I really need to know that I might miss. I know the general guidelines, but that’s it.

Oh and I know religion can be a heated subject, but I’m looking for facts, I don’t intend to share my personal views, and I’d like if people could abstain from derailing the threat into a debate. Thank you :)
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Catholics have a lot of prayers. The Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary, and the Glory Be are all pretty common and can be used in a lot of circumstances. Making the sign of the cross is a common gesture that can be used when your priest needs to ward off evil or invoke the Lord's support.

He could also pray to an appropriate Patron Saint for intercession. (wikipedia has a good list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_and_activity) Prayers to patron saints aren't necessarily formalized, so you can make stuff up as needed.

If you want to do more than minimal research, Catholics use the Psalms from from the Book of Psalms as prayers. There's probably something appropriate for most situations in the Psalms.

I'm not sure what more you want to know: your character is obviously very different from most Catholic priests, and I don't know what knowledge you already have. I'll mention some stuff that's obvious: you must speak Church Latin, since the Liturgy in 1939 is still in Latin. You only eat one small meal during Lent (roughly the six weeks before Easter) and you don't eat meat from birds or ground animals on Fridays and Saturdays during Lent (fish is okay). You must be celibate (not married) and chaste (no sexual relations). You should regularly confess your sins* and atone via the penance given to you by the priest who hears your confession.

* You're supposed to confess mortal sins at least once a year, but weekly confessions are strongly encouraged.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:35 PM   #3
ericthered
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Note: the traditional Russian church is orthodox, not catholic. Not to say that he can't be catholic, only that it is an atypical combination. Though given the specific backstory he may have converted.
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Old 04-20-2018, 12:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Remember that this setting is before the Second Council of the Vatican, which reformed the Catholic Church a great deal. It was very formal and hierarchial back then; everyone had his or her place. A priest held a moderately senior position, with considerable authority in his parish, and definite rights and responsibilities in canon law. "Priest" is actually the second-highest of seven orders (doorkeeper, reader, acolyte, subdeacon, deacon, priest, bishop), it is a status that one achieved only after a good deal of formal education in theology and canon law and at least a couple of years subordinate service as a subdeacon and deacon (ordination to the minor orders came in stages during training at a seminary). In the Catholic model of back then a Catholic priest was seen not only as the minister of sacraments and pastor of his congregation, but also as a judge with the authority to impose penalties on the people under his jurisdiction (thus clearing their debt to God for sin). Every ordinary member of the church belonged to a particular parish (or other "ordinariate") and was the subject of a particular priest. Officially you needed a letter from your bishop to move to another diocese! On the other hand, a priest also had duties and responsibilities with respect to his parish, and was supervised in his discharge of them by an archdeacon or rural dean, or some other official of the diocese his parish was in.

There is a Catholic Encyclopaedia on line in English that dates from before Vatican II. It's a good source for the way things were supposed to work in the Church between about 1870 and 1970. You could do a lot worse than to start be reading the articles on "Priest" and "Parish" there.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:09 AM   #5
Algarik
 
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Well thank you very much mlangsdorf that was helpful! I’ll be sure to look if I can find some prayers in the Book of Psalms and I’ll look for some Patron Saint. I knew about having to speak Latin, I also knew about sins confession and chastity requirement, but I didn’t knew much about dietary constraint.

Thank you again :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Note: the traditional Russian church is orthodox, not catholic. Not to say that he can't be catholic, only that it is an atypical combination. Though given the specific backstory he may have converted.
Oh, yes thanks you I already was aware of that. I know that the difference between the two churches are numerous, but only in some detail, the general line are more are less the same, at least to my knowledge. Besides, the teachings of religion were heavily regulated in USSR, around 1918 its people could only get taught religion privately. Before its clerical studies, my character was taught by his mother and his uncle so he didn’t really had time to remark the big differences between the two churches, he was mostly really faithful in God. Finally he became a catholic priest because he got his clerical training in Canada, by a catholic priest.

But thank you for your time :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
Remember that this setting is before the Second Council of the Vatican, which reformed the Catholic Church a great deal.
All right, thank you very much! I had no idea about the pre-reformed Catholic Church. That is definitely useful to know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
There is a Catholic Encyclopaedia on line in English that dates from before Vatican II. It's a good source for the way things were supposed to work in the Church between about 1870 and 1970. You could do a lot worse than to start be reading the articles on "Priest" and "Parish" there.
Again thank you very much! :)
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

I actually do know quite a bit about it both because a number of my favorite writers are Catholics and because I have run into a number of details in the course of study. However I am not culturally adapted to Catholicism and so may not be the best source. I can answer specific questions.

One thing I do know is that regulating Mass is a big deal. At the time period you are in you could have a heroic priest toss a Stormtrooper out on his ear for trying to take Mass while wearing his uniform(and make the priest turn out to be a cinematic brawler who actually can do that; there are lots of stories about that if only because the incongruity always has great appeal).
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:21 AM   #7
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Modern Roman Catholic priests are all college graduates; the seminary requires a 4 year degree throughout most of the world, and is itself is usually a 4 or 5 year masters program. Exceptions exist, but are rare.

Western monastic orders' priests take seminary in academic programs, but who goes is determined by the superior.

Orthodox priests generally are also holders of 4-year degrees plus seminary, but a fraction are not. The seminary is either 4 years in a scholastic mode, or 4-10 years of deaconate ministry with onegoing education; Deacon training is either apprenticeship for 3-6 years, or is mid 2nd or 3rd year in the seminary.

Eastern Catholic priests (who look like the Orthodox) generally require the 4 year degree, but otherwise look like the Orthodox in both dress, ritual, and organization.

Remember also - Every priest has a very specific assignment, and answers to the local bishop. They're not free to do as they please; their vows are essentially feudal vassalage to the bishop. The salary is low, but often is enough to buy a nice townhouse. And the do have a day off each week.

Priests of the diocese may live at their parish, or in a house they own, or in some cases, in a communal house owned by the diocese. Many own a car.

Priests of religious orders usually live in communal housing. Most own nothing of note, sometimes they own a car. The order provides for their needs, and their stipend is for "spending money". They don''t answer to the bishop, but to their superior within their order
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:38 PM   #8
Algarik
 
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_aramis View Post
Modern Roman Catholic priests are all college graduates; the seminary requires a 4 year degree throughout most of the world, and is itself is usually a 4 or 5 year masters program. Exceptions exist, but are rare.
Yeah i knew that to be priest it required a lot of study, but my character is gonna be an exception.

Thank you all for your answer :)
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Algarik View Post
Yeah i knew that to be priest it required a lot of study, but my character is gonna be an exception.
This might not be something that you and your GM care about for your game, in which case all power to you.

It takes a bishop to make a priest, and the bishop is subject to certain laws about doing that. A bishop can I think turn any Catholic man into a priest with a ceremony of ordination, but he will be breaking canon law, and subject to penalties for doing so, if the priest is not legally qualified, or if the bishop does not appoint him to a Church office suitable to his priestly dignity that has duties and either a stipend or property producing a suitable income.

Perhaps you ought to read about the mendicant friars
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Hunter, The vigil : Need tips to roleplay a Catholic Priest

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
This might not be something that you and your GM care about for your game, in which case all power to you.

It takes a bishop to make a priest, and the bishop is subject to certain laws about doing that. A bishop can I think turn any Catholic man into a priest with a ceremony of ordination, but he will be breaking canon law, and subject to penalties for doing so, if the priest is not legally qualified, or if the bishop does not appoint him to a Church office suitable to his priestly dignity that has duties and either a stipend or property producing a suitable income.

Perhaps you ought to read about the mendicant friars
No. Only a deacon can be ordained a priest. Only a priest can be ordained bishop or archbishop. Only a bishop can be installed as a patriarch.

Key concept for understanding the Roman Church: Licity vs Validity.
Licit is "allowed by canon law."
Valid is "Has the ability to function." My cousin Thomas is a laicized priest; if he were to say mass with proper materials, it would be a "real" (valid) mass, but he'd be doing it illicitly, because he was laicized.

Any Catholic man in good standing can be ordained a deacon. It's only licit if the education, suitable marriage history, permission of his wife*, and permission from his bishop are all in place before hand.

Only an unmarried or widowed deacon can be ordained a priest licitly; a married deacon can be ordained a priest validly. It requires the permission of the deacon's bishop, wife (if married and granted permission from Rome, it's licit; fewer than 1000 men have obtained such permission in the 20th & 21st century within the Roman Church), and the proper education for it to be licit, as well as at least 1 year from diaconal ordination, excepting if elected pope or patriarch.

Only an unmarried or widowed priest may be validly ordained a bishop. No currently married bishop has been ordained in many centuries, and even then, the wife was entered into a convent and had to give assent, and it was considered a bit scandalous. To be licit, the pope or the priest's patriarch must give permission, the wife (if any) must be dead, the man must have been a priest 10 years,

IRL, there's no exceptions allowed for the educational requirements - there are two routes, however - academic seminary, and bishop-supervised apprenticeships. Deacons require a 2 year or 4 year degree.

Also, canon law requires at least one year as an instituted acolyte (before Vatican II, the term was ordained acolyte) prior to ordination to the diaconate.

If a man being ordained a deacon or priest has no wife, but has a living mother, she must assent for his ordination.

The church as a whole is EXTREMELY conservative about the educational requirements. A validly but illicitly ordained man is not allowed to function unless Rome has approved.

There is another way, however...
There are many small splinter churches that have a single bishop to a handful of bishops, retain all the outward appearances of Catholicism, but which are not in union with Rome. Most of these have somewhat reduced requirements for ordination licity, and many have no prior degree requirements. In the modern day, most of these also allow women to be ordained to the diaconate; some to the priesthood and episcopacy. The Archbishop or Bishop often is functional as head of church as well as diocese.

The Four largest splinters of note are the Polish National Catholic Church, the Union of Utrecht, the Lefebvrists, and the People's Patriotic Church of China. (The Anglicans dwarf all three, but have other issues). Independent Catholic Churches abound in the US, and a few exist in the UK and France.

The Lefebvrists consider married men illicitly ordained, period, and many of them consider married men invalid matter for ordination...
The PNCC has no female ordination, but is otherwise parallel to the roman church.
The Union of Utrecht has, last I heard, female deacons and Priests. It also openly endorses same sex unions.
The People's Patriotic Church is a government run church, in which many catholic clergy are hidden...

The terms Old Catholic and Independent Catholic refer to pretty much most any church which has a bishop who can trace back to the Catholic Church a line of ordaining bishops. Many are a single "cathedral" parish of modest size. Some are tiny parishes in converted garages...

If you're going to play a priest, a faux OC or IC jurisdiction avoids many issues.
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