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Old 01-31-2018, 09:31 AM   #11
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrot View Post
Yeah, so a web grappled PC with a greatsword is basically done for.
Any (Powered by) GURPS PC that focuses solely on one combat technique for optimal situations and doesn’t have a backup plan for trickier stuff is going to be in trouble when stuff isn’t going their way.

Seriously, visualize the scene in the movie where the barbarian tries to attack the spider on his chest using his claymore...
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:45 AM   #12
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

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Originally Posted by ArchonShiva View Post
Seriously, visualize the scene in the movie where the barbarian tries to attack the spider on his chest using his claymore...
Pummeling seems to visualize fine.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:28 AM   #13
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

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More on topic, I think that's just training from D&D 3e+ - in DFRPG (and GURPS and a lot of other games) you don't get "free" attacks from the enemy moving near you.
Some form of zone of control is fairly common in wargames; it's a way to prevent some tactics that are artifacts of turn-based combat rather than representing anything legitimate.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:30 AM   #14
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

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Originally Posted by zuljita View Post

This isn't GURPS but I have mostly GURPS players... They are used to being able to use this from the FAQ

Does this ruling persist in DFRPG and I just couldn't find it?
"This doesn't affect parries made as your foe enters close combat" is a ruling from the third paragraph of Long Weapons in Close Combat (GURPS Martial Arts, p. 117). It's considered "advanced" (it isn't from the Basic Set) and didn't get imported into the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game; in fact, you can safely assume that most of GURPS Martial Arts wasn't adapted. "You can even retreat if you want" is on p. B392 and thus made it into Defense in Close Combat (Exploits, p. 51).
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

So if a foe enters close combat with you,

1. You can retreat if a retreat is available, in which case you can parry
2. You can parry IF you have a reach C option
3. You can dodge

?
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:00 PM   #16
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

As for the two other matters entangled in this spidery thread:

Being Useful in Close Combat: Someone with a weapon too long to use in close isn't useless there. If they're grappled (by a foe or an environmental or spell effect), they can try to break free or cut their way free, as the situation dictates; if they aren't grappled, they can just leave, though they might have to evade if they're backed up against an obstacle or surrounded by foes. If you find that boring, and are skilled enough to deal with penalties for being grappled, you can attack: if you have free arms, you can use a ranged weapon (if you can tolerate the added penalty for Bulk), switch to a close-combat weapon (if you can make the DX roll), or simply shove, punch (at a damage bonus for a fist-load such as a weapon that's too long to use properly), or grapple back; if you have free legs, you can kick; if you have neither, you can bite. Finally, note that Concentrate maneuvers for special abilities are permitted, and distraction is only likely to matter if you need more than one such maneuver.

Zones of Control: These don't really exist because most maneuvers you can take let you move at least a little, perform some task, defend afterward, and tack on a number of free actions. If you can't do one of those things, it's usually because you can do even more of the rest; e.g., All-Out Attack (Double) prevents defense but gives more movement and attacks than plain old Attack. What this means is that there's so much going on that you don't also have time for free shots at enemies – not on a time scale that assumes attacking takes a second. However, you can assert zones of control with Wait; just say that if anybody passes through a given area, you'll attack them.
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

This makes monsters with reach C attacks dangerous if you don't have a good reach C option, especially if you get backed into a corner. It also helps mitigate the frequent weakness of such creatures: Getting parried in their mouth parts. I like this approach more than the one I linked from the GURPS FAQ.

Thank you Kromm!
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Zones of Control: These don't really exist because most maneuvers you can take let you move at least a little, perform some task, defend afterward, and tack on a number of free actions. If you can't do one of those things, it's usually because you can do even more of the rest; e.g., All-Out Attack (Double) prevents defense but gives more movement and attacks than plain old Attack. What this means is that there's so much going on that you don't also have time for free shots at enemies – not on a time scale that assumes attacking takes a second. However, you can assert zones of control with Wait; just say that if anybody passes through a given area, you'll attack them.
Zones of control aren't necessarily free attacks -- the major purpose is to prevent people from running around enemies in ways that wouldn't work without the abstraction of turn-based movement. They're mostly not needed in GURPS due to the short turn length, though I'd be tempted to allow you to spend your retreat to step in the path of someone trying to run past you.
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

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Originally Posted by Carrot View Post
Yeah, so a web grappled PC with a greatsword is basically done for.
This is why everyone should have a Reach C option: Knife* (and Fast Draw Knife), Brawling†, Wrestling†, etc.

* Check your skill defaults, Dress Smallsword for the Rapier wielder, Long Knife for Broadsword users, etc.
† And of course Karate, Judo, Sumo.

Quote:
As far as "stopping" an opponent, I guess there's a few ways that works / could work?
Knockback.
Maybe. If they don't have more Movement left to spend.

But yes, often "and the foe can't follow your Retreat because it only stepped this turn" is the reason most Reach C monsters end up dying without dealing much damage.

Quote:
The incoming attacker having to dodge on the way in. Does this stop movement? it make sense that it would, but I can't find a ref easily.
No, Dodging does not inhibit movement at all. However it does mean the attacker didn't All Out Attack, which is nice.

Quote:
The incoming attacker being incapacitated on the way in.
This totally works.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Pummeling seems to visualize fine.
My Barbarian used Wrestling and Brawling. Pin the spider and then wail on it forever. Blunt brawling damage isn't optimal for killing monsters, but it stopped the beast's attacks for those ten rounds.

Until I got annoyed, let it go, ripped free of the webs, stepped back, and proceeded to miss every attack until someone else killed it.

Le sigh.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
So if a foe enters close combat with you,

1. You can retreat if a retreat is available, in which case you can parry
2. You can parry IF you have a reach C option
3. You can dodge

?
Yes, exactly.

Close Combat is a PC killer.
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:34 PM   #20
martinl
 
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Default Re: Parry and Close combat

I have seen fencing manuals that explicitly recommend stepping into close combat and going for wrasslin' or dagger based murder if your opponent is a better swordsperson that you. Apparently some DF baddies read the same book.
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