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Old 09-15-2013, 10:58 PM   #101
zorg
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(First, I haven't been abducted, just trying to catch up).

I'd think that the Marines would prefer some logo with a martial bent, even though they're not trying to apply out traditional military solutions. If they have a motto (Duty is Honor, Honor is Sacrifice; or whatever, possibly in Latin), that could be added to the design (or choosen as a tattoo by the marines). Seeing that the sword is already taken, a skull motif might be a tad obvious, but still fitting (in the sense that they're courting death, and applying it - and, in the end, trying to prevent too much of it). Of course, skulls tend to go to the bad guys, so maybe not.

The Empire itself could use some sort of symbol for peace, or life, or security. A mailed fist with an olive branch? A dove in front of a shield? A burning sun in front of a tower? (I like the idea of the eagle grasping an olive branch and lightning bolts very much)
Again, an added motto (To serve Humanity; Duty from Fire; The Greatest Good) might be a good idea.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:08 AM   #102
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One reason that the US armed forces need warrant officers is that they don't pay enlisted members enough to retain anyone who has valuable skills. I don't know why Congress has decided to under-pay US service personnel by 50%; I suggest that you write to your congressman and ask him.
The allowances include BAH and BAS, which are untaxed moneys for housing and meals, based on location of the family, which add $1,500-$3,000 a month, but yeah, base salary is way low for enlisted in the US.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:38 AM   #103
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It has occurred to me that "Eichberger" means "oak-mountain one" or "dweller on the Mount of Oaks" or something like that (the family took its name originally from a town in Switzerland, but everyone will have forgotten that). The symbol of that town is a sprig of oak with three leaves and two acorns. It has occurred to me further that oak trees and leaves have a well-known association with Zeus and Jupiter, classical gods of kingship and the state, and that wreaths of oak, or imitations made in god, were long an attribute of rulers in the way that wreaths of laurel were attributes of victors. It has occurred to me still further that oaks have a less well-known association with Thunor/Donar/Thorr, the god of (among other things) lightning and the protection of Man from giants and monsters. So I think that a uniting theme of oak motifs might work well, especially as the original Senate (not speaking much German) would not have appreciated how much the Eichbergers felt it belonged to them. I can put an oak wreath around anything to make it Imperial.

• A star with an oak wreath around it might be good for the Imperial Navy.

• A pair of crossed swords on an oak wreath or of crossed rifles on an oak wreath (like this, but with less laurel, more oak, fewer crowns, and less writing) might suit the Imperial marines.

• I could put globe of Earth in a wreath for the Imperial Office, a garb of wheat in an oak wreath for the Colonial Office. Put the eagle with olive and arrows (or perhaps lightning bolts) in a wreath for the Imperial Council.

• And then things that aren't part of the Imperial government, such as Spaceways, the Eichberger Foundation, Universal Imports, the Universal Bank, Eichberger Realty etc. could use other oak leaf, acorn, sprig-of-oak, and oak tree motifs.

• I'm warming to the use of a portcullis with gold chains as the symbol of the Senate.

I'm still not absolutely convinced that an imaginary crown is impossible as a symbol of sovereignty. Crowns are nice to work with in constructing badges, and I really think that people searching for a symbol of a new superordinate sovereignty might revive the crown as a symbol of it. Charlemagne and Napoleon revived the eagle as a symbol of empire.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:04 AM   #104
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Now I suppose the ORs' insignia get eagles in place of the crowns. Do I do the same with the officer insignia, or do I look into something like German officer insignia, which already uses oak-leaf motifs.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:31 AM   #105
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Heh! I've discovered that the crown of the German Empire of 1871–1918 existed only as a wooden mock-up and an heraldic design. No actual German state crown was ever made.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:54 AM   #106
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Well, in any case I'd be careful with the acorn imagery. It might come off more phallic than intended.

Have you considered mottos?

And while we're at it: I take it from wikipedia that today, single US ships have unique mottos and heraldry. Is that so in Flat Black?
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:27 AM   #107
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And while we're at it: I take it from wikipedia that today, single US ships have unique mottos and heraldry. Is that so in Flat Black?
British ships do as well, and some of them are also starting to do challenge coins these days too.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:01 PM   #108
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Well, in any case I'd be careful with the acorn imagery. It might come off more phallic than intended.
Meh.

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Have you considered mottos?
Yes, but apart from musing that classical English (as contrasted with Standard) might be used for them the way Latin used to be until late last century I haven't come up with much.

Quote:
And while we're at it: I take it from wikipedia that today, single US ships have unique mottos and heraldry.
Australian warships, too.

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Is that so in Flat Black?
If heraldry survives to or is revived at the mid-490s PDT the use or a crown as an Imperial symbol is definitely justifiable.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #109
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I really like the idea of a unifying oak motif.
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:38 PM   #110
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I really like the idea of a unifying oak motif.
Good, because I've decided that the eagle was a Mayflowerite symbol inherited from Mayflower's American antecedents. This made it politically unacceptable to the early Senate as a symbol of the Empire; they were trying to deprecate the identity of the Empire with the Eichbergerists and Mayflowerites. So they adopted the "Imperial Crown and attributes of Jupiter Capitolinus" instead, reviving the parliamentary portcullis for themselves. The crown is an official symbol of the sovereignty and prerogative of the Empire, adopted by the Senate when it imagined that it would be exercising that sovereignty. It appears on things, but the mink aren't as fond of it as of the oak and thunderbolt.
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