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Old 01-18-2018, 04:10 PM   #11
Armin
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

Note 4 just says it receives the Karate damage bonus, not what that bonus is.

The Karate text in Basic actually says that it applies +1/+2 per die to "basic thrust damage" for Karate attacks, which actually strongly implies that it doesn't apply to swing attacks at all.

However, I believe the intent is that Karate applies a damage bonus, and that you figure this bonus based on thrust damage (which is why it tells you to write it down) regardless of what other factors apply. I always just assumed it based it on thrust damage so that it was a slowly increasing value based on an existing system.

As I say, I don't have a ruling any particular way.

Finally, I'm seeing what Garion is: ST 18, DX 10, Karate-11, Bladed Hand Swing mode is doing 3d cut. (Just Basic and Martial Arts loaded.)
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

Note, also, that I am NOT a rules expert, by any means, and that I often miss various rulings and discussions on these things. That's why I almost always defer to Eric on these things, and why I tend to avoid rules-oriented discussions about GCA data files.
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

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Originally Posted by Armin View Post
However, I believe the intent is that Karate applies a damage bonus, and that you figure this bonus based on thrust damage (which is why it tells you to write it down) regardless of what other factors apply. I always just assumed it based it on thrust damage so that it was a slowly increasing value based on an existing system.
I guess that's possible, but it seems really weird to me to add bonus thr damage to a swing attack (wouldn't that logically make the bonus damage impaling or maybe even crushing for both swing and thrust if literally bonus punching damage?). Maybe this is an ask Kromm problem.

FWIW, I just did it again and with just those two gdfs loaded (b4.0.423), I am getting 3d-2/3d+1/3d+4 for Karate at DX-1/DX/DX+1 and ST 18. Why would we be getting different things?

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Old 01-18-2018, 05:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

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If you are correct, shouldn't that be 3d-1=3d-2+1? Just 3d seems wrong either way.
Bladed Hand swing damage is sw-2. Swing damage for ST 18 is 3d. So base Bladed Hand damage for ST 18 is 3d-2.

With Karate @ DX, damage bonus based on thrust dice, is +1. Damage becomes 3d-1. Karate @ DX+1, damage bonus becomes +2 per die, so +2, and damage becomes 3d.

I'm seeing what I expect to see, unless I'm missing something.

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FWIW, I just did it again and with just those two gdfs loaded (b4.0.423), I am getting 3d-2/3d+1/3d+4 for Karate at DX-1/DX/DX+1 and ST 18. Why would we be getting different things?
That's a good question. I'm getting what I expect to see on both GCA4 and GCA5, but I don't see what you're getting at all.

Is it possible you've modified the files you're using? Could you paste in here for me the damage() field from the Full Edit Window for your Bladed Hand?
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

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FWIW, I just did it again and with just those two gdfs loaded (b4.0.423), I am getting 3d-2/3d+1/3d+4 for Karate at DX-1/DX/DX+1 and ST 18. Why would we be getting different things?
Yeah, okay, if I change Bladed Hand to use a Karate damage bonus based on swing instead of thrust, I get the numbers that you show here.

Did you change the file, or change it on a character that you were testing with and didn't resync?
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

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Bladed Hand swing damage is sw-2. Swing damage for ST 18 is 3d. So base Bladed Hand damage for ST 18 is 3d-2.

With Karate @ DX, damage bonus based on thrust dice, is +1. Damage becomes 3d-1. Karate @ DX+1, damage bonus becomes +2 per die, so +2, and damage becomes 3d.

I'm seeing what I expect to see, unless I'm missing something.
Yeah I did bad math.

Although shouldn't that be 3d-2 cut +2 cr if it is supposed to be the punch damage bonus?
Quote:
That's a good question. I'm getting what I expect to see on both GCA4 and GCA5, but I don't see what you're getting at all.

Is it possible you've modified the files you're using? Could you paste in here for me the damage() field from the Full Edit Window for your Bladed Hand?
I am fairly sure that I never modified it. I can paste the field in a bit, but I am mobile right now.

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Did you change the file, or change it on a character that you were testing with and didn't resync?
I did a clean character.
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:23 PM   #17
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

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Although shouldn't that be 3d-2 cut +2 cr if it is supposed to be the punch damage bonus?
No, it's not doing that damage; it's not an add-on attack or follow-up or anything, it's providing a damage bonus to the damage done, because your knowledge of Karate allows you to make better use of your strikes.

Basic Set says the bonus is "to basic thrust damage" and nothing about type of damage or swinging, so it's not adding damage, it's improving damage done, whatever type it may be.

I don't think it does us any good to try dissecting what's said, it's likely counter to the intent to try and do so.
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

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I don't think it does us any good to try dissecting what's said, it's likely counter to the intent to try and do so.
Yeah, this probably at the ask Kromm stage.
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: Damage bonus from Karate

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Yeah, this probably at the ask Kromm stage.
I'll email him.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:15 PM   #20
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I'll email him.
I sent a PM already.
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