Changes to Combat Reflexes [Basic]

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Combat reflexes is a generic extreme resistance to surprise, without bothering to care what the surprise is or what the rational response to the surprising event is. The human brain doesn't work that way.

I think the question remains, what is your basis for that position?

[Jareth Valar]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

CR is deliberately low priced, but even so, comparing it to the cost of further levels of enhanced defense is misleading. Just like the first level in a skill only cost 1, while further levels cost more, so CR is cheap, as it represent the huge but easy to gain step beside someone without combat experience and someone with it.

That's why you don't compare it to later levels of Enhanced Defense, but only the initial levels. Let's do that:

Combat Reflexes: +1 to all Defenses, bonus to a couple of skills and significant advantage on Surprise situations. 15 CP
---------
Enhanced Block: +1 to all Block checks. 5 CP
Enhanced Dodge: +1 to all Dodge checks. 15 CP
Enhanced Parry (All): +1 to all Parry checks. 10 CP

So, Combat Reflexes gives you all three of those bonuses to Defense as well as 2 other benefits for only half the cost.

Then you have the shaping sentence in Enhanced Defenses of "This talent is definitely cinematic!". Nothing of the sort for Combat Reflexes, which is the same defense benefit (at least as the initial levels of Enhanced Defense) as well as added ones for half the cost.

Not misleading in the slightest IMHO.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Combat Reflexes is strictly better than enhanced dodge or buying up basic speed to improve dodge, but that might indicate those traits being overpriced, rather than CR being underpriced.

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But you have to ask "overpriced for what purpose"? They're simply intended for characters in the 250+ range while Combat Reflexes is intended to be available to characters as cheap as 100 points.

[Jareth Valar]

For our game, which has banned cinematic skills/advantages, we have dropped the defense bonus, dropped the price to 10 CP and call it Combat Veteran. We do allow the purchase of 1 level if the Enhanced Defense advantage to compensate.

So far, the former soldier has Combat Veteran but no Enhanced Defense, but our former MMA fighter has Enhanced Parry (Unarmed) but no Combat Veteran (didn't make sense for the background). With the base rules, both characters would have had Combat Reflexes.

We'll probably use this option for many different games to come, as all of the players and GM discussed the change and all agreed (some more enthusiastically than the GM, LOL)

[tbone]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Thus, Enhanced Time Sense would end up costing 30 CP, lacking Combat Reflexes would be represented by a -15 CP disadvantage that I call Bystander, and Combat Paralysis would be worth -30 CP. What do you think?

I think it's equivalent to saying "Good news, I'm giving you all 15 more CP. Oh, and I really recommend Combat Reflexes for this game."

Nothing wrong with that!

[Jareth Valar]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

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But you have to ask "overpriced for what purpose"? They're simply intended for characters in the 250+ range while Combat Reflexes is intended to be available to characters as cheap as 100 points.

So...the one "meant for the 250+ range" should cost more for less return while allowing the lesser to be bought as well/instead of? Can't wrap my noodle around this one.

Personally, if I were to keep Combat Reflexes giving a Defense boost for the current price (I'd possibly up it to 20 CP with the following option, dunno) I'd allow a +1 to either Dodge or Parry (All)/Block. Both total to 15 CP using the Enhanced Defense and adding the other benefits for 5 CP seems a bit low to me, it wouldn't be a deal breaker I don't think.

End result really is though, if you don't have an issue with it as is, then their really isn't much to discuss on the subject. Enjoy it!

[Jareth Valar]

Originally Posted by tbone

I think it's equivalent to saying "Good news, I'm giving you all 15 more CP. Oh, and I really recommend Combat Reflexes for this game."

Nothing wrong with that!

YUP, I absolutely LOVE the K.I.S.S. principle. LOL

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Jareth Valar

So...the one "meant for the 250+ range" should cost more for less return while allowing the lesser to be bought as well/instead of? Can't wrap my noodle around this one.

Obviously you buy Enhanced defenses on top of Combat Reflexes. The thing about Enhanced Defenses is that since they have no upper limit they can take you into wildly unreal Spider-Man/Captain America territory. They allow you to exceed human limitations.

[Sorenant]

In my experience, it's not always the the extra DB that makes Combat Reflexes so essential. I mean, it's certainly a very attractive feature but sometimes I'd rather spend those 15 points increasing Unarmed Parry by 3 levels, or getting extra Parry level and two Block levels.
What makes it really essential for any games that will see combat is the nigh-immunity to surprises. Unless the GM hacks something out of Resistant advantage, Combat Reflexes is the only way to increases resistance to surprises. Bonus to defenses is nice but you can easily deal without it, a surprised character is in deep trouble.

[seycyrus]

Originally Posted by arnej

My GM broke it into three separate levels.

Combat Awareness [5] - You never “freeze” in a surprise situation, and get +6 on all IQ rolls to wake up, or to recover from surprise or mental “stun.” You get +2 to all Fright Checks.

Combat Quickness [5] - You get +1 on initiative rolls. You get +1 to all Fast Draw skills. (leveled part of Combat Reflexes)

Combat Reflexes [5] - Combined with Combat Awareness and Combat Quickness to make the full Combat Reflexes bonus. Gives +1 to all active defenses.

As many players griped at suffering under the "Surprise" rules, the first level was very popular. Combat-types went quickly to level three if they could (or just started with it)

I believe that I stole this idea from your GM! Does he run "Dark Paths and Wandered Roads"?