Ht 0

[zorg]

Originally Posted by Kromm

What HT 0 means is that your HT roll is against 0.

What about ST 0? Or IQ 0?
There are lots of things you can usually do without rolling, but which require these attributes to be present (walking and talking, for example).

Can you still walk with ST 0, or talk with IQ 0, or would you have to make a roll vs your attribute to do it? I guess the latter, since the action may be trivial with attribute 10 (requiring no roll), but difficult enough to warrant a roll with attribute 0.

Is that correct?

[t@nya]

Originally Posted by zorg

What about ST 0? Or IQ 0?
There are lots of things you can usually do without rolling, but which require these attributes to be present (walking and talking, for example).

Can you still walk with ST 0, or talk with IQ 0, or would you have to make a roll vs your attribute to do it? I guess the latter, since the action may be trivial with attribute 10 (requiring no roll), but difficult enough to warrant a roll with attribute 0.

Is that correct?

It seems to me that someone with ST 0 wouldn't be able to move, since you need a minimum strength in order to move your body mass around.

Someone with IQ 0 would be brain-dead and be unable to talk.

[JoelSammallahti]

Originally Posted by t@nya

It seems to me that someone with ST 0 wouldn't be able to move, since you need a minimum strength in order to move your body mass around.

Someone with IQ 0 would be brain-dead and be unable to talk.

I think KO would be a reasonable result for IQ 0, since -20 to IQ costs the same on an Affliction as unconsciousness. That's enough to take anyone's IQ down to zero.

For ST 0, paralysis might be a good approximation. Paralysis is worth +150%, and that would get you ST-30, enough to bring down anything up to about two tons in weight, like an allosaurus.

But what about DX 0?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti

Ok. So machines don't go boom because of missing maintenance, they just become so decrepit that any kind of strain will put them out of order.

Yes. Numerous rules say, "Roll vs. HT or bust!" If a machine suffers enough damage to break down (p. B483) or fall apart (p. B484), is exposed to harsh conditions that could foul it (p. B485), is cinematically redlined (the "extra effort" option on p. 160 of Powers), is Fragile (esp. combustible, explosive, or flammable, p. B136) and exposed to damage that can trigger special injury effects, is Electrical and receives a dose of radiation (p. B436) or an electrical surge (p. 102 of Powers), is a vehicle that suffers a severe body hit that can cause power failure (p. B554), or needs to make a "structural integrity check" for any reason (to see if a rope snaps, a seal holds, etc.), then HT 0 means that, except by blind luck (a roll of 3-4), it is doomed to fail and come apart like a cheap toy.

[MIB 1473]

Originally Posted by t@nya

It seems to me that someone with ST 0 wouldn't be able to move, since you need a minimum strength in order to move your body mass around.

Not in GURPS. With Lifting ST 0, you could move just fine, but never pick anything up. (You'd have to be naked.) The effect of having 0 HP might be a more interesting question - presumably any damage would put you beyond the help of even magic or superscience.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by zorg

Can you still walk with ST 0, or talk with IQ 0, or would you have to make a roll vs your attribute to do it?

ST 0 means you have Basic Lift 0 and can pick up nothing. If you have any encumbrance at all, even a gum wrapper, you collapse under its weight. You also have 0 damage, and can't even shove a door open or push aside a cobweb. However, you can walk and act, as long as your walking and acting doesn't involve doing anything other than moving your own body weight from A to B. Thus, air and fire elementals (p. B262) can have ST 0 without being immobilized, but can also be kept out by any barrier they can't penetrate by seeping around or burning.

IQ 0 means you're a rutabaga. Per p. B15, at IQ 0, you're mindless and unable to act without somebody possessing you and operating you via remote control. You need at least IQ 1 to have a self and be able to perceive and act at all, which includes grunting and making gestures. You need at least IQ 6 to use tools and language -- that is, to talk, wield weapons, etc. A human afflicted with -5 to IQ (making him IQ 5) is essentially a gorilla. A human hit with -10 to IQ (making him IQ 0) is essentially a mindless clone body waiting to be possessed.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by t@nya

It seems to me that someone with ST 0 wouldn't be able to move, since you need a minimum strength in order to move your body mass around.

This is actually untrue in GURPS. The game assumes that a character has enough "internal strength," in essence rated by HP, to in principle move her body parts around (although crippling disadvantages can incapacitate those body parts). The ST score represents the ST she can project in the outside world. While it's traditional to give higher ST to bigger creatures -- i.e., for the "external ST" rated by ST to keep pace with the presumed "internal ST" measured by HP -- this isn't universally true. Superheroes can have huge ST out of proportion to their size and mass (HP), while a massive shipping container or a mountain can have oodles of HP but ST 0 (see, for instance, the note on vehicle ST on p. B462). What keeps the shipping container from walking is its lack of brain and limbs, not its ST 0.

Lowering ST itself doesn't lower HP; see Temporary Attribute Penalties (p. B421). If somebody has ST 100 and HP 100, and you drop her ST to 0, she still has HP 100 and full structural itegrity, and can still move the mass represented by that HP 100. To afflict somebody with the inability to move her own body, tack on the Paralysis enhancement. That will do the job all on its own . . . but if it's important, add a ST penalty, too. If you want it to be really dire -- with crushed lungs, burst heart, etc. -- link this to a grievous Crushing Attack with Malediction, and blast away the HP that go with "internal ST."

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

This is actually untrue in GURPS. The game assumes that a character has enough "internal strength," in essence rated by HP, to in principle move her body parts around (although crippling disadvantages can incapacitate those body parts). The ST score represents the ST she can project in the outside world. While it's traditional to give higher ST to bigger creatures -- i.e., for the "external ST" rated by ST to keep pace with the presumed "internal ST" measured by HP -- this isn't universally true. Superheroes can have huge ST out of proportion to their size and mass (HP), while a massive shipping container or a mountain can have oodles of HP but ST 0 (see, for instance, the note on vehicle ST on p. B462). What keeps the shipping container from walking is its lack of brain and limbs, not its ST 0.

Lowering ST itself doesn't lower HP; see Temporary Attribute Penalties (p. B421). If somebody has ST 100 and HP 100, and you drop her ST to 0, she still has HP 100 and full structural itegrity, and can still move the mass represented by that HP 100. To afflict somebody with the inability to move her own body, tack on the Paralysis enhancement. That will do the job all on its own . . . but if it's important, add a ST penalty, too. If you want it to be really dire -- with crushed lungs, burst heart, etc. -- link this to a grievous Crushing Attack with Malediction, and blast away the HP that go with "internal ST."

Is Reduced HP a proper Disadvantage, or is it treated/granted differently?

[Kromm]

Reduced HP is intentionally not available to Affliction. To blow away HP, attack the target.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Reduced HP is intentionally not available to Affliction. To blow away HP, attack the target.

But what can reduce Maximum HP, like the bite of The Pillar of Skulls, or severe levels of Vicissitude attacks?