TL-10 gear manufactured by TL-12 factories

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

The question becomes, "can a typical Ugandan afford to dress in «Western Clothing» if they want to?" and "Do Ugandans actually want to dress in «Western Clothing»?" If the second is "no", the first is moot. If the first is no, then the move is political for more than just job-protection - it gets into the range of cultural protection.

Or it uses "cultural protection" as a rationale for protecting the economic self-interest of one part of the population, perhaps at the cost of decreasing total economic welfare. This looks like a classic "Baptists and bootleggers" scenario: the Baptists oppose the drinking of hard liquor for religious reasons, the bootleggers want to sell it on the black market at high prices and not face competition from legal liquor stores, supermarkets, convenience stores, and bars, and the two both work to mobilize the prohibitionist vote.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

Not always just “labor”. A real world example might be India, which is largely at TL-7 and even TL-6... but which has teaching hospitals and universities at TL-8, or near enough not to matter. I don’t know about the rest of the world but India exports physicians to the US like crazy, despite being overall at a lower TL.

I'm not sure why you don't classify that as "labor." Physicians aren't intellectual property, or physical assets (capital), or physical commodities; they're human beings with skills they can use to work. That looks like "labor" to me.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I'm not sure why you don't classify that as "labor." Physicians aren't intellectual property, or physical assets (capital), or physical commodities; they're human beings with skills they can use to work. That looks like "labor" to me.

When I hear "labor" I think of tasks that can be trained for in one year or less, and I also associate it with manufacturing, repair, construction, and other work on material goods in industrial environments. Sometimes farm work comes up. Perhaps this is a little stuck up of me / whatever conditioned my mind that way, but it is what it is.

[SteveS]

Originally Posted by ericthered

When I hear "labor" I think of tasks that can be trained for in one year or less, . . .

The distinction is unskilled labor, semi-skilled labor, skilled labor -- and resources that don't count as labor at all.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

ETA: there are several factors besides price. Speed of production is important as is the ability to train people from lower TLs to use the equipment.

Can TL-10 gear be produced faster than TL-12 gear?
Can people be trained faster on gear that is closer to their native TL?

One of the worlds is TL-6 so they probably will have to mostly be defended by outsiders, but training residents of TL-8 and 9 worlds to use TL-10 equipment shouldn’t be too hard.


***************************
I know there’s a blurb about this so where in the rules, but I can’t find it.

What is the economic impact of a TL-12 manufacturing capability choosing to build something to TL-10 specs?

Specifically, my group is playing the Pirates of Drinax campaign from GooseTraveller but using GURPS rules. They’ve gotten a industrial TL-12 planet to join the kingdom and want it to provide planetside and orbital defenses, but believe TL-10 would be “good enough” given the most likely threats IF there is an economic savings to doing so.

It seems like the savings should be substantial.

Thoughts?

Both Switzerland and China produce EDC gear. Switzerland just does it better and there is so much of China that they can always get something out of it.

[tanksoldier]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Both Switzerland and China produce EDC gear. Switzerland just does it better and there is so much of China that they can always get something out of it.

So here's what I've found out. I haven't been able to find any rules really relevant to producing less capable gear using a higher tech base.

However... I've built a basic revenue cutter three different ways.

The full-capability TL-12 cutter is 50dt, 6g, DR1000, and a small turret with a single pulse laser. A TL-11 cockpit was used to save money so sensor and comm ranges are the same as TL-12 but computer complexity is one less at 7. The cutter has 3 low berths (12 tubes) and a cargo hold which can be converted either to a 60 patient basic evacuation bay or emergency seating for 120 evacuees. This cost just about MCr20.

I then built the same craft to TL-10 specs, getting as close to the performance and capabilities of the TL-12 craft as possible. That cutter is 50dt, 4g, DR500, Complexity 6, small turret with single pulse laser... and significantly reduced sensor and comm capabilities over the TL-11 cockpit. The evacuation bays can only hold 24 patients or emergency seating for 48. This cutter costs about MCr11. So, if you're willing to accept the reduced capabilities TL-10 seems cheaper...

...BUT...

I then built a TL-12 cutter to match the reduced TL-10 performance of the cutter above. This one was 35dt, 4g, DR500, Complexity 7 with the TL-11 sensor and comm capabilities, a 24/48 patient/passenger evac bay and single pulse laser... for MCr9.

So, if you were a world government willing to accept TL-10 craft performance and all other factors being equal you'd still save money having a craft with those capabilities built at TL-12... AND you'd have a more capable craft with better weapons, computer, sensors, comms and reduced maintenance costs (such costs are based on purchase price) over the TL-10 version.

...so, absent major political motivations, why would anyone buy the TL-10 version?

[jason taylor]

Are we talking about technical CONCEPTS or CRAFTSMANSHIP? Because a Swiss knife and a Chinese knife are basically knives but I would much rather have a Swiss one.

[tanksoldier]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Are we talking about technical CONCEPTS or CRAFTSMANSHIP? Because a Swiss knife and a Chinese knife are basically knives but I would much rather have a Swiss one.

The Chinese are capable of crafting knives as fine as anyone in the world, and they do... US distributors BUY cheap knives to sell here, but that doesn't mean that's all China can do.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

The Chinese are capable of crafting knives as fine as anyone in the world, and they do... US distributors BUY cheap knives to sell here, but that doesn't mean that's all China can do.

That's as may be. That is not really the point. The point is that the same kind of good can often be crafted better at a higher TL. Is a TL 10 good that can be routinely crafted at fine at TL 12 but only average at TL 10 a TL 12 good? Or are only goods that can only be crafted TL 12 counted.

[tanksoldier]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

That's as may be. That is not really the point. The point is that the same kind of good can often be crafted better at a higher TL.

...but China's manufacturing TL isn't higher or lower than Switzerland's... I'm confused.

Is a TL 10 good that can be routinely crafted at fine at TL 12 but only average at TL 10 a TL 12 good? Or are only goods that can only be crafted TL 12 counted.

I'm not sure there's any case of a weapon of piece of gear at a given TL that can't be made fine or very fine... or expensive, rugged or whatever... at the TL it's introduced.

I'm also not aware of anything except blade weapons that are given automatic quality increases by a TL... and that's like 6 TLs after introduction.