Warp Tunnel into Space

[Arcanestomper]

I have a player who is attempting to make a power that lets them make extended duration warp tunnels with extreme range. By itself this isn't too much of a problem.

But they brought up the possibility of then putting one end of the tunnel in space and the other end by someone they want to get rid of. Thus turning it into an efficient way of removing people from play.

I know what happens if you use an affliction warp, or a warp with exoteleport. But I'm not sure what happens with warp tunnels. Are there rules to handle this?

[Refplace]

One way to handle it is they can dive for cover as for any Area attack.
However I say atmosphere and such does not go through, you have to walk through. Otherwise Warp can be used to flood cities and other shenaigans.

[Nereidalbel]

Since Warp Tunnels appear quite close to the user, he's gonna have to make the same "don't die" roll as his target every time he uses such an "attack." If that doesn't change his mind about this, well, you told him so when he gets himself killed!

[Anaraxes]

No reason that the Tunnel Enhancement obviates the resistance you'd get with an Affliction Warp.

A strict GM might require the attack form to be built as a separate ability, probably an AA with the main transportation power (since the attack forms are supposed to be Afflictions).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

No reason that the Tunnel Enhancement obviates the resistance you'd get with an Affliction Warp.

A strict GM might require the attack form to be built as a separate ability, probably an AA with the main transportation power (since the attack forms are supposed to be Afflictions).

This is the strict "Buy the effect you want rather than buy a non-attack form and discover an unforeseen side-effect". AD&D magic was full of unforeseen side-effects as anyone who ever sank a ship with Wall of Iron would know.

There's no reason to have "unforeseen" side effects when you're working with Powers. Buy what you want, pay for what you get.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Since Warp Tunnels appear quite close to the user, he's gonna have to make the same "don't die" roll as his target every time he uses such an "attack." If that doesn't change his mind about this, well, you told him so when he gets himself killed!

Darling, why are you putting on that parachute and oxygen mask? We aren't on a plane, you big silly!

What? Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!

Of course, that won't work for space proper. But maybe 10 miles up...

[Arcanestomper]

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel

Since Warp Tunnels appear quite close to the user, he's gonna have to make the same "don't die" roll as his target every time he uses such an "attack." If that doesn't change his mind about this, well, you told him so when he gets himself killed!

The character in question routinely wears sealed battle armor. So getting warped into space isn't a huge problem for them.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I recall someone trying to make a perpetuum mobile out of two (Magic magic) gates put in a way to produce an endless waterfall and tap into its energy, only to find out that gates don't cause matter to spontaneously go through it, merely allowing creatures to go through when they want to. I suspect the same should apply to Warp Tunnels.

That sounds reasonable, but I don't see anything like that on the tunnel modifier itself. So it would be a hard sell.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

This is the strict "Buy the effect you want rather than buy a non-attack form and discover an unforeseen side-effect". AD&D magic was full of unforeseen side-effects as anyone who ever sank a ship with Wall of Iron would know.

There's no reason to have "unforeseen" side effects when you're working with Powers. Buy what you want, pay for what you get.

That was my first response actually. I'm just having trouble convincing the player that that is the proper course of action. So I was looking for an alternative either a rule reason why it's not possible. Or a way to make it possible.

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Arcanestomper

The character in question routinely wears sealed battle armor. So getting warped into space isn't a huge problem for them.

And does this Warp have enough Can Carry to bring that armor along? If not, they're ending up in space without a suit.

[Arcanestomper]

It's a tunnel warp with extra carrying capacity. My understanding is that those are limited only by the size of the portal and don't have a weight limit. If it had a weight limit then the original issue would be nullified as the tunnel wouldn't simply turn off before much air or water had gone through.

[Kallatari]

Originally Posted by Arcanestomper

The character in question routinely wears sealed battle armor. So getting warped into space isn't a huge problem for them.

That sounds reasonable, but I don't see anything like that on the tunnel modifier itself. So it would be a hard sell.

That was my first response actually. I'm just having trouble convincing the player that that is the proper course of action. So I was looking for an alternative either a rule reason why it's not possible. Or a way to make it possible.

If I understand you correctly, you're the GM and you don't want the player to have this ability.

If you're the GM, then the "physics" of your world are how you define them. If you say tunnels only let people through, then that's how they work. There shouldn't be anything you need to "sell" to your player. And a player who respects the GM will understand that.

That said, if you want arguments.

For argument 1, take a look at the description of Tunnel:

Using your ability always creates a portal of about your size, which lingers for 3d seconds. Anyone may step through it. +40%

It merely says "anyone may step through it." Anyone means people. It doesn't in any way say objects can pass through on their own. Granted, it likewise doesn't say that they can't. Like anything not explicitly covered, that means it's fully up to the GM to interpret and decide how it works. (Above and beyond the fact that you can overrule any rules anyway since you're the GM).

Argument two: Nowhere does it say the portal is two ways. Unlike in the first argument, there isn't even any hidden implied messaging that even comes close to suggesting otherwise. Nowhere does Warp say "two-way" or "exchange with what's there", or anything like that. Even Tunnel creates a portal next to you... doesn't say it makes one on the other side. So it's clearly a way-one door. That means the "vacuum of space" can't possibly affect people on the other side. The opponents would have to voluntarily walk through it to end up in space... they wouldn't get sucked in by the vacuum. Just like opening the portal to underwater doesn't let the water through. On the other hand, with this logic, if you were underwater when you opened the portal, the water would flow through to the destination... but even if you were in space as the starting point, the vacuum still couldn't pull anything back through the portal to it because it's one way... so that effect would be negated.


Finally, if that doesn't work, if it was my player and the player doesn't get the hint (and for some reason I haven't asked him to leave the group), I simply have the villains use the exact same power they specifically created against the party (my long-time players know this and thus never go overboard anymore). So the bad guys will do that to him. Oh, he has a spacesuit. Fine, open a pinpoint gate to the sun and watch him fry as his takes more HP that he has can possibly have DR for. Or make it a major campaign plot: have a bad guy start destroying everything in the campaign using that ability but never facing the players directly (he teleports away whenever the PC are nearby), and the only way the players can stop him is to use an artifact (quest!) that changes how ALL portals work in the universe (to the way you want it to work), thus neutralizing his ability. You've effectively forced the player to knowingly and willingly sacrifice his own power to stop the bad guy. And if the players don't.. have enough rumors in the game about others attempting to do so to stop the bad guy, and then change how it works on the player when they succeed.

Note: I'm normally against this type of railroading or permanent crippling of player abilities in my games.. but in this instance we are talking about a player who is insisting he have a powerful effect the GM is trying to say "No" to. I would ask such a player to leave before it would even get that far.


If the player really wants to do that effect. The proper way to build it - by buying that effect - is an Affliction (Warp), with Area Effect to create the radius for what gets sucked through and Can Carry enhancement to be able to affect the mass of everything to be pulled through... the tunnel is merely a special effect.