Non-Humans in Fantasy

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

PJ does make the elves out to be jerkasses, doesn't he?

The Wood Elves aren't exactly the friendliest folk in the book, but they do like to party and they do help the Lake-Men.

I'm a bit worried that we are going to get stuck-up emo elves in the films.

They're going to look rather like sparkly vampires, I think.

Bill Stoddard

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by whswhs

They're going to look rather like sparkly vampires, I think.

Bill Stoddard

Please, please let Bill be wrong.

:()

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

Please, please let Bill be wrong.

:()

No he won't. :\
They sparkle, and procreate by rainbows and butterflies.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Unwritten rules and cultural assumptions are just as important to impressions as R.A.W.

Oh, I wasn't pulling out 'rules.'
The descriptions of the demihuman races in the DMG are not rules. Nope, those are merely suggestions, guides for roleplaying, ideas put forth by Gygax.

What I'm talking about is averting or subverting some gamer tropes about 'how elves are supposed to be.' Going back to an early gaming resource and seeing how elves were presented in it is one way to do that.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

No he won't. :\
They sparkle, and procreate by rainbows and butterflies.

I hope not.

They need to drink booze and party, or they will be all wrong.

[Anders]

Elves really need Compulsive Carousing, with Carousing understood as "drink a lot of wine and sing beautiful songs" rather than as "drink a lot of unspecified fermented stuff and try to have sex with your own foot."

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Elves really need Compulsive Carousing, with Carousing understood as "drink a lot of wine and sing beautiful songs" rather than as "drink a lot of unspecified fermented stuff and try to have sex with your own foot."

Agreed, my siblings thought I was joking when I said the original Middle earth had the elves as the light hearted folk and the dwarves as the series ones.

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Elves really need Compulsive Carousing, with Carousing understood as "drink a lot of wine and sing beautiful songs" rather than as "drink a lot of unspecified fermented stuff and try to have sex with your own foot."

Yeah!

Gygax once mentioned a fairy tale in which some princes go through a magic portal or some sort, and visit elf-maids in elf country. They dance until they get holes in their shoes.

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Elves really need Compulsive Carousing, with Carousing understood as "drink a lot of wine and sing beautiful songs" rather than as "drink a lot of unspecified fermented stuff and try to have sex with your own foot."

Im never partying with you asta...but I know a lady podiatrist that might be into you :)

I still use the Gygax description of Elves from 1e AD&D.

We've seen a lot of different treatments of elves, everything from santas sweatshop slaves, to cookie baking tree elves, to legolas, and the post tolkien fantasy treatment of elves largely dominated by D&D, to the elves in Hellboy.

They matter. They are not an absolute necesity for Fantasy, but their absence will be noticed I think.

Nymdok

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Disliker of the mary sue

in that one scene in the hobbit movie where the dwarves are being forced away from their homes by a dragon while elven army just watch. (Admittedly I am not very familiar of Tolken's work so their might have been a reasonable explanation

As Bill said, no such scene in The Hobbit -- but Tolkien did establish a long-running dislike and distrust between elves and dwarves that by the time of The Hobbit / LOTR is embedded social background. For the actual causes, you have to look to the earlier time covered by The Simarillion.

Like all such enmities, it gets reinforced over generations every time someone does something to "them" as revenge for past wrongs, thus justifying the next wrong by the other side.

I saw that scene in the movie as an attempt by Jackson to establish the elf/dwarf enmity without having to drag in vast amounts of past history. Especially since Legolas and Gimli were friends in LOTR, those not already steeped in Tolkien-lore might assume elves and dwarves got along just fine.