Gurps Vampire vs Hunter balance concerns.

[AlexanderHowl]

But, by RAW, attributes to 20 are realistic, they are just improbable. I have met plenty of people who have ST, DX, IQ, or HT above 14, and some with combinations of more than one at above 14, so I think that is just an observational bias on your part due to knowing very few professional athletes or top tier academics (you only need an effective IQ of 12 to get an MD or PhD, but it helps to be smarter). I would suggest that Batman in the comics possesses a DX 20 and an IQ 20 (as well as a few cinematic advantages like Gadgeteer and Trained By a Master) because he can practically do everything.

[dataweaver]

If he has cinematic martial arts or gadgeteering, he's definitely not mundane. Having either IQ20 or DX20 makes you extraordinary, not mundane; having both strains credulity even more.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

But, by RAW, attributes to 20 are realistic, they are just improbable. I have met plenty of people who have ST, DX, IQ, or HT above 14, and some with combinations of more than one at above 14, so I think that is just an observational bias on your part due to knowing very few professional athletes or top tier academics (you only need an effective IQ of 12 to get an MD or PhD, but it helps to be smarter). I would suggest that Batman in the comics possesses a DX 20 and an IQ 20 (as well as a few cinematic advantages like Gadgeteer and Trained By a Master) because he can practically do everything.

RAW is not, and has never been, intended to model reality. It, at default, models heroic fiction shoving all sorts of messy hassles and variables of real life under the rug.
But you're just proving my point about how everyone has different opinions on the Gurps equivalent limits of humans.

For a specific game, only the players' and GM's opinions really matter.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

It is possible to spend 600 points on attributes (ST 20, DX 20, IQ 20, and HT 20) and 85 points on Secondary Characteristics (P 26, FP 26, Basic Speed 12.00, and Basic Move 15), adding up to 685 points. Add Ambidexterity, Appearance (Very Beautiful), Charisma 5, Combat Reflexes, Deep Sleeper, Extra Attack 1, High Pain Threshold, Less Sleep 4, Status 3, Voice, and Wealth (Multimillionaire 2), and you are up to 890 points. Add in Allies, Contacts, Perks, Skills, and Techniques, and you could have a respectable 1,000 point character after disadvantages and quirks without developing any supernatural abilities (though there would be a question of why your character is doing anything but taking over the world).

If that person was alive in 1690 we would know who they were. Who is this?

[DAT]

Something that could help the advise and ideas, is more details on the setting and campaign prospectus your GM is planning.

You mentioned 1690, but is it in Western/Eastern/Northern/Southern Europe, Middle East, Asia, North/South America, Africa, or where exactly. Depending on that; French Musketeers, Crew of a pirate ship, Spanish priest and conquistadores, Turkmen, Romanian nobles, etc. could all be a common starting thread for the PCs.

For some general ideas;
1) you could play a "friend"/ally/"person who owes a favor to" the PC's vampire sire, and you are asked/conned/pressured into helping out his new fledglings. It could be the sire's dying request, if the GM wants the fledgling PC characters to start ally less.
2) you could be responsible for the other PCs (Sense of Duty), and they are severely injured, and the only way to save them was the embrace by the vampire sire.
3) you could have a common cause with the other PC's, say an adversary that wrong all of you, and you are all working to track the adversary down and destroy them.

A passive immunity/high resistance to vampire powers (possible granted by a gadget/holy relic) would be a key character feature for the paranoia of the setting.

I think you need to brainstorm with your GM, to come up with a concept you like, will be useful in the setting, and that will work within the bounds of the GM's setting.

[Drakyrias]

So I didn't make it through the entire post thread but as a longer time WoD player and ST then GURPS GM/player I would give the following advice

A hunter/human/ghoul is always going to be excluded and less then in a vampire society. Whether Camarilla or Sabbat non Kindred/Cainite characters have no rights in vampire society except those conferred to them by their vampiric sponsors.

As a hunter PC you are guaranteeing yourself to be antagonistic to the entire rest of the game, and that the rest of the PCs will be required to hunt and kill you as a violation of the masquerade.

A careful note about Masquerade law: It does not mean stopping people in the dark from finding out. It means stopping ANYBODY from learning the secrets of vampire society. Knowing the location of an Elysium, the secrets of the court dynamics of the Camarilla and the strife of the Sects are all secrets that are violations of the Masquerade if shared to the other denizens of the World of Darkness be they Garou, Changeling, etc.

Collusion with a Hunter can be seen as violation of the Masquerade, as well as Destruction, since if a hunter destroys a vampire and is seen as a ghoul of a vampire, the crimes of that ghoul are the vampire's crimes.


If you do not want to play a vampire in a WoD themed game, I would recommend a less adversarial character archetype, best choices being mages, or a vampire friendly (or non hostile) form of shapeshifter (Bastet, Ananasi, or Ratkin). These character types would place you on more of an even keel, less in a position of being a victim of vampiric society, because even though they are loath to admit it each are equal (or superior) in some way to vampires. There would still be some amount of being shut out of the political scenes, but that would be unavoidable, of course Ananasi and Bastet routinely infiltrate places so even that could be mitigated.

Actually stating all that in points for GURPS would take a degree of proficiency I'm afraid to say I don't yet possess, but the GURPS Classic Book Shapeshifters has ample space to creating various forms of Weres to supplement the WtA book, etc.

[Bicorn]

To be completely honest, the social dynamics of the OP's group sound like a much worse issue than any point balance concerns here.