Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-16-2018, 10:22 AM   #11
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
This would be on the north end of Lake Vic (head-waters of the Nile River, btw), with two much larger nations bordering it (and each other).
And travel on Lake Victoria is fairly easy, so you need some reason why those larger nations don't want the territory. Aha, you could use a Bir Tawil situation, to keep them off, and have the population of the area be people who are seeking refuge from the various conflicts in the area.
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2018, 12:18 PM   #12
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
And travel on Lake Victoria is fairly easy, so you need some reason why those larger nations don't want the territory.
On the other hand territorial states (as opposed to nations) are a fairly new thing to this region of the world, and their boundaries are all set by colonial politics with little connection to the truth on the ground. It would not altogether surprise me there are still a few villages along these borders that *don't know* what state they are officially in, though it's getting somewhat unlikely. Half a century ago it wouldn't have been much of a stretch at all for a tribe of tens of thousands of people with no real interest in the outside world to rule themselves and mostly ignore the guys from two or three different surrounding governments who occasionally show up and try to convince them they should pay taxes or set up poling stations for the official election. Isolationists after all aren't making any real trouble, and it's not like the newly independent African states don't have places that are to absorb their attention.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2018, 11:26 AM   #13
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

The "don't know what country they are in" approach sounds the most valid to me. They will have some minor geographic obstacles, enough outside contact to have enough guns to not get immediately run off, and they can live in blissful ignorance of their political standing until they are all suddenly millionaires.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2018, 01:13 PM   #14
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
On the other hand territorial states (as opposed to nations) are a fairly new thing to this region of the world, and their boundaries are all set by colonial politics with little connection to the truth on the ground. It would not altogether surprise me there are still a few villages along these borders that *don't know* what state they are officially in, though it's getting somewhat unlikely. Half a century ago it wouldn't have been much of a stretch at all for a tribe of tens of thousands of people with no real interest in the outside world to rule themselves and mostly ignore the guys from two or three different surrounding governments who occasionally show up and try to convince them they should pay taxes or set up poling stations for the official election. .
Not when they're on a major waterway.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2018, 03:10 AM   #15
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Not when they're on a major waterway.
Thing is, even on major waterways there's locations where even the shallowest draft boats can be damaged by what's under the water line. Mind, I don't know what Lake Vic is like in that area near the Kenya/Uganda border....
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 06:22 PM   #16
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Isn't insularity a necessary part of the slur "banana republic"? If they packed enough juice to play the field in a major way no one would call them that.

Admittedly there are complications as several otherwise small states have a key influence on some rare commodity.

Also the word implies a stereotype of instability and political incompetence.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2018, 06:26 PM   #17
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
On the other hand territorial states (as opposed to nations) are a fairly new thing to this region of the world, and their boundaries are all set by colonial politics with little connection to the truth on the ground. It would not altogether surprise me there are still a few villages along these borders that *don't know* what state they are officially in, though it's getting somewhat unlikely. Half a century ago it wouldn't have been much of a stretch at all for a tribe of tens of thousands of people with no real interest in the outside world to rule themselves and mostly ignore the guys from two or three different surrounding governments who occasionally show up and try to convince them they should pay taxes or set up poling stations for the official election. Isolationists after all aren't making any real trouble, and it's not like the newly independent African states don't have places that are to absorb their attention.
It's not as if that was unknown in Europe. Several clans straddled the English and Scottish border and tangled any pursuing posse up in red tape when they went rustling(technically the victims could chase them; it was a little more work to arrange a Warden Rode on the other side of the border).
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 10:26 AM   #18
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Isn't insularity a necessary part of the slur "banana republic"? If they packed enough juice to play the field in a major way no one would call them that.
Quite the opposite. The proper use of the term is to describe states dependent on the export of a single commodity to provide the money to prop up a nearly sham government - the original example being the various governments of Honduras bought by the United Fruit Company in the 1890s and 1900s. Being completely export dependent and foreign dominated these are anything *but* insular.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2018, 06:14 PM   #19
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Quite the opposite. The proper use of the term is to describe states dependent on the export of a single commodity to provide the money to prop up a nearly sham government - the original example being the various governments of Honduras bought by the United Fruit Company in the 1890s and 1900s. Being completely export dependent and foreign dominated these are anything *but* insular.

However those types of governments are "insular" in the sense that no one has ambitions outside the local factional politics with the exception of relations to local foreigners. There is simply not enough resources available to make ambition practical. In a banana republic the quarrel between generalissimo X and the Y liberation front or the Z drug cartel are far more important then familiar old-fashioned Great Power politics. Foreigners are important insofar as they are in country or nearby or directly related to the economy. But one cannot picture them dreaming of eating a whole continent in a gulp and if they tried they will be whacked without anyone thinking about it.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison

Last edited by jason taylor; 05-24-2018 at 02:26 PM.
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2018, 11:13 AM   #20
Þorkell
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
 
Þorkell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
Default Re: [World-Building] Hypothetical insular banana republic - why insular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
However those types of governments are "insular" in the sense that no one has ambitions outside the local factional politics with the exception of relations to local foreigners. There is simply not enough resources available to make ambition practical. In a banana republic the quarrel between generalissimal X and the Y liberation front or the Z drug cartel are far more important then familiar old-fashioned Great Power politics. Foreigners are important insofar as they are in country or nearby or directly related to the economy. But one cannot picture them dreaming of eating a whole continent in a gulp and if they tried they will be whacked without anyone thinking about it.
So a state is either a banana republic or a Great Power?
__________________
Þorkell Sigvaldason

Viking kittens | My photos | More of my photos
Þorkell is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.