Vaguely crunchy questions about Cherubs of David (I'm sorry!)

[Smegalicious]

Alright, I know In Nomine is generally designed to be more free-form and less crunchy, but I had a particular question because of a game I played in recently.

We had a Cherub of David who got provoked by a bunch of people wearing armor. The attunement allows a Cherub to attract metal from (this is from memory, so forgive any slight inaccuracies) (celestial forces) yards to his hands. Our GM (who is a forgiving and friendly sort) allowed the Cherub to use this as a weapon, such as to pull people's boots out from under them or even cause them severe whiplash by pulling on their helmets.

Does this seem like a valid idea? How much force would you consider a Cherub of David to be able to exert with his attunement? I'm curious because it seems like the ability is almost a bit strangely abusable in some contexts.

[rudeboyscott]

Doesn't seem too off the wall to me, but I'm also pretty lenient, prefering story over dice rolling. One of the supplements (Liber Servitorum?) mentions a Cherub who pulls guns and knives out of the hands of students at the rough high school he works at; stands to reason a gun might weigh as much as a piece of armor like a foot, gauntlet, etc. The possessor (wearer?) does get a Str roll to resist after all...if it seems too powerful, you could give the target a bonus to resist, if he's able to get his whole body into the resisting action versus just using hand/arm strength versus a disarm. Just one man's opinion.

Seems like the other guys shoulda done their homework, that's all. Overheard the next day at whatever bar guys in armor hang out at:

"Don't bring a knife to a gunfight, and never wear armor to a fight with Cherubim of Stone, my man!"

[William]

If you want to go ahead and model it on GURPS, the power is roughly TK with the Magnetic and Attraction limitations, and can probably be used in all the same ways that power can -- including grappling, shoving, and so forth. If it were GURPS, I'd allow these maneuvers with skill rolls -- for example, to give whiplash I'd have the player roll against the lower of Neck Snap technique and Innate Attack (TK). Pulling someone's feet out from under them is a trip attempt, etc.

IN is far less crunchy, so I'd probably just shove it all under Fighting rolls. He simply happens to be using a supernatural weapon.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Smegalicious

How much force would you consider a Cherub of David to be able to exert with his attunement?

To disarm a combatant to create conditions for a fair unarmed fight, or to disable somebody who is about to harm somebody else: As much as he wants.

To injure a combatant who is trying to fight the Cherub, or to place a combatant in a position in which he is unable to fight back before hitting him: As much as he wants until David shows up to personally take it away and smack the $#!% out of him for turning his gift into a ranged weapon.

[Archangel Beth]

Yes, I was just about to make the point that turning it into a true ranged attack would be against the principles of Stone. Turning it into a relatively "harmless" way to keep someone from messin' with ya... Hey, if someone is wearing metal boots, and within melee range, and you have the strength to pull that boot into your hand so you can dangle the annoyance upside down...

More power to ya. Or so I'd play it as a GM.

[Moe Lane]

"Turning it into a relatively "harmless" way to keep someone from messin' with ya... Hey, if someone is wearing metal boots, and within melee range, and you have the strength to pull that boot into your hand so you can dangle the annoyance upside down..."

Indeed. Think of it as an abstruse argument, even: if you're too weak to keep from being dragged away, then you should be making yourself stronger; and if you can hold your ground, why are you bothering with armor? :)