Making a new limitation for Damage Resistance

[Grunker]

A new limitation is what we're discussing in this thread. The other solutions have already been ruled out. Here's why:

Costs FP alone should be enough to sort of turn it into a 1 minute duration power - after one minute you need to pay maintenance (half the FP cost). I don't think this is a good place for Maximum Duration - that limitation is really for things that could have been left on indefinitely anyways, and once Costs FP is on there you can't maintain indefinitely. It's both overkill and doubledipping at the same time.

I'd be inclined to call it another -5% or -10% nuisance effect that you can't maintain, you must spend another action (and activation cost) to turn it back on.

This does not solve the issue of Ablative DR :)

spending 75pts gives you a shield that stops 1d6pts of damage its not bad.

It's also not really viable for the sort of ability we're looking for. The ability is supposed to cost between 5 and 15 points at low levels and be viable, and at level 5 cost around 25-50. If you check the link I provided, you will see that we already discussed that option :)

Your version is very limited and costs ALOT of points.

So, this thread is for discussing a new limitation that does what we're looking for (a limited duration ablative DR that can be restarted).

My version of the new limitation is the closest I could get when I thought about it. But I'm sure it can be done more cleanly/better... Certainly I haven't given the costs much thought so maybe they can be improved? :)

EDIT: For example, many have stated that a maximum duration 1 minute should be a nuisance (-5%). I'm inclined to agree with this, but the problem I see with is that once you add Costs Fatigue to the mix, having to cast it every minute is so much more than a nuisance in my mind. Costs Fatigue (1FP) and a nuisance is a total of -10% on power that without the -10% gives you a point of DR without any "buts" for 5 points.

[gjc8]

Originally Posted by Grunker

This does not solve the issue of Ablative DR

Unless you have a LOT of it, ablative DR that recovers quickly ends up being more expensive than regular DR. That's a problem for multiple builds, not just this one. The best solution is probably a "Fast Recovering Ablative" limitation for DR, which is a smaller limitation than standard Ablative. That's essentially what you're doing when you say that if Ablative resets when you reset your DR, it's -5% (which is probably reasonable, even conservative).

Originally Posted by Grunker

EDIT: For example, many have stated that a maximum duration 1 minute should be a nuisance (-5%). I'm inclined to agree with this, but the problem I see with is that once you add Costs Fatigue to the mix, having to cast it every minute is so much more than a nuisance in my mind. Costs Fatigue (1FP) and a nuisance is a total of -10% on power that without the -10% gives you a point of DR without any "buts" for 5 points.

The only interaction that limitation has with Costs Fatigue is that you lose the ability to maintain it for half price, which is not limiting at all if it only costs 1 fatigue since the halving rounds up.

Perhaps you have a problem with the pricing of Costs Fatigue; you wouldn't be the only one. But better to address THAT, then. The RPK house rules suggest it should be worth -10%/level (and limits it to 4 levels).

[Grunker]

Unless you have a LOT of it, ablative DR that recovers quickly ends up being more expensive than regular DR. That's a problem for multiple builds, not just this one. The best solution is probably a "Fast Recovering Ablative" limitation for DR, which is a smaller limitation than standard Ablative. That's essentially what you're doing when you say that if Ablative resets when you reset your DR, it's -5% (which is probably reasonable, even conservative).

This does not solve the duration-problem though, and it's kindda built in to the limitation I suggest :)

The only interaction that limitation has with Costs Fatigue is that you lose the ability to maintain it for half price, which is not limiting at all if it only costs 1 fatigue since the halving rounds up.

Perhaps you have a problem with the pricing of Costs Fatigue; you wouldn't be the only one. But better to address THAT, then. The RPK house rules suggest it should be worth -10%/level (and limits it to 4 levels).

I dunno. You may be right about this one. Will think on it.

[the_matrix_walker]

I would just build this as an Ablative DR Affliction.


Affliction:
Added Advantage, (DR 5, Ablative, -80% [5]) +50%
Fixed Duration, 0% (Gives a fixed 3 minute duration)
Reduced Duration, 1/3, -10% (reduces that 3 minutes to the 1 minute you're asking for)

You can add a limitation that you can only use it on yourself if that's the design you're going for.

[Grunker]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I would just build this as an Ablative DR Affliction.


Affliction:
Added Advantage, (DR 5, Ablative, -80% [5]) +50%
Fixed Duration, 0% (Gives a fixed 3 minute duration)
Reduced Duration, 1/3, -10% (reduces that 3 minutes to the 1 minute you're asking for)

You can add a limitation that you can only use it on yourself if that's the design you're going for.

Does this restart the Ablative DR on "recast"?

[the_matrix_walker]

I would say so.

Why was the Affliction approach dropped?

[Grunker]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I would say so.

Why was the Affliction approach dropped?

How? Affliction doesn't change the advantage that you can "afflict" people with as far as I see it? I.e. Affliction does not change the fact that the DR only regenerates at the same rate as injury. It's 2:30 AM and I'm on my way to bed, but AFAIK it won't work.

That's why the Affliction approach was dropped. The only solution was to add Regeneration to the mix, complicating matters further and adding tons of points to the cost.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Grunker

How? Affliction doesn't change the advantage that you can "afflict" people with as far as I see it? I.e. Affliction does not change the fact that the DR only regenerates at the same rate as injury. It's 2:30 AM and I'm on my way to bed, but AFAIK it won't work.

That's why the Affliction approach was dropped. The only solution was to add Regeneration to the mix, complicating matters further and adding tons of points to the cost.

I see no reason why it would need to regenerate. I would say it was a brand new application of the ability. If I have a nozzle that sprays ablative foam I would expect that I could blast an area again once the foam was worn off to protect it again.

With the foam example, I would add Cumulative, +400% so that it could be layered. That would solve the (perceived possible) problem here as well, but then leads to the new problem of being able to add your base DR every turn.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I see no reason why it would need to regenerate. I would say it was a brand new application of the ability. If I have a nozzle that sprays ablative foam I would expect that I could blast an area again once the foam was worn off to protect it again.

With the foam example, I would add Cumulative, +400% so that it could be layered. That would solve the (perceived possible) problem here as well, but then leads to the new problem of being able to add your base DR every turn.

That one is an easy fix apply the Layered armor penality for ever /full/ multiple of the affliction. so the second coat on count as a second layer if it wasn't repairing damage.

[the_matrix_walker]

If the Cumulative effect cannot exceed the basic value and only restore things anew, +400% is far too much IMO

But it is RAW and gives us a basis for "getting what we want"

So maybe use a limited version, (Modifying Modifiers is fun!) with an Accessibility Limitation on the Cumulative enhancement. I'd say under the circumstances that "Only with Depleted Ablative DR" would be worth -50% or more considering the scope change your talking about.

But I'm still not convinced it is necessary.