Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-09-2020, 08:09 PM   #1
Donny Brook
 
Donny Brook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Snoopy's basement
Default Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

If a character has a Power build that is based on an object, like say DR which is a suit of armor, or Innate Attack which is built as a sword, or a ring of invisibility, is the actual physical object included? So if the Power is neutralized, does the character still have a mundane object?
Donny Brook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 08:17 PM   #2
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

That depends on how it's done. Is the gadget broken? stolen? In either case, I'd say no. If the power is neutralized by some antipower, then yes.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 09:21 PM   #3
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

I'm pretty sure consensus in past is that you ought to pay for the value of the object using either your wealth or signature gear or statting them up as an ally (like Thamautology: Weapons as Characters)

Otherwise I could take Penetrating Voice (Breakable Gadget: Helmet with 1000 DR -0%) [1] to get an indestructible helmet without paying whatever that might cost.

Consider for example that when buying enchanted items in GURPS Fantasy it's 25 energy per character point spent on Signature Gear.

M66 charges 10% for head armor, and +5 DR from Fortify costs 8000 energy, so it costs 800 energy to give merely 5 extra magical DR to a helmet, which would cost 4*8=[32] in signature gear.

S78 doesn't seem to represent that but it ought to since "I own an indestructible item which allows me to use a Block defense" is a very large benefit, regardless of what that item does.

There is at least a "Gadgets without DB cannot be used to block attacks" restriction there (which doesn't entirely line up since there are DB+0 items capable of blocking as improvised weapons in GURPS Fantasy like using a book) which at least requires S34's [30] metatrait as the base cost, meaning even if you get it down to -80% you're still paying at least 6 points for the privilege... or maybe 2 points if you had it as an alternate ability. I'd still rather see the gadget's other value besides "touching some worthless thing gives me a power" represented as wealth/ally/SG though.

Neutralizing a power would never eliminate a gadget, just the power the gadget gives you. Gadget is a lot like "granted by familiar", it just means you need to be touching something vulnerable to loss to use the power.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 10:04 PM   #4
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

Well, gadgets are assumed to be better than Signature Gear unless you have Unique (you are paying points for them after all), but it would be reasonable for a GM to charge for valuable items. In general, I would only require characters to buy Signature Gear if the value of the underlying item was more than 5% starting wealth. For example, a very fine dagger at TL8 only costs $40, which is less than 1% starting wealth, so I would not force someone to spend 1 CP for the Signature Gear. Since a DR 1,000 helm would be worth billions of dollars, I would require Signature Gear.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 10:30 PM   #5
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

I'd say that most of the time the object remains.

However, if the remaining gadget retains useful abilities (paid for with points) even when stripped of power, those abilities shouldn't have the power modifier attached.

For example, I may have a suit of magical armor that gives me 10 DR... but without magic, it only gives 3DR. In that case, I should but 7 DR with a power modifier, but 3 DR without it.

I might allow a PC to buy the "mundane" properties of such a gadget as signature gear, or if the item was fairly cheap, allow a wizard in an anti-magic zone to have a free stick -- just don't break it.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 05:52 AM   #6
Gumby Bush
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: FL
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I'd say that most of the time the object remains.

However, if the remaining gadget retains useful abilities (paid for with points) even when stripped of power, those abilities shouldn't have the power modifier attached.

For example, I may have a suit of magical armor that gives me 10 DR... but without magic, it only gives 3DR. In that case, I should but 7 DR with a power modifier, but 3 DR without it.

I might allow a PC to buy the "mundane" properties of such a gadget as signature gear, or if the item was fairly cheap, allow a wizard in an anti-magic zone to have a free stick -- just don't break it.
This seems right to me.

There may be cases where the gadget is a pile of electronics which does nothing when neutralized, in which case, sure, have a pile of electronics which a Gadgeteer might have a use for for free.

Even an unbreakable stick might stick around, but if the player hasn't paid for being able to hit people with it (Innate Attack or something), then it still can't be used that way... In essence, the player has already purchased Vow (only use wand as a wand) by failing to buy related abilities in some form.
__________________
Formerly known as fighting_gumby.
Gumby Bush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 07:51 AM   #7
Taneli
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

If it were something like The Unbreakable Staff of Power, and then it loses the magic, I'd treat it as a quarterstaff of what ever material it was made out of. If it's something that shatters quite easily, we'll, then it's gone. If it was made out of sturdy wood, you could easily use it as weapon.
__________________
[/delurk]
AotA is of course IMHO, YMMV.
vincit qui se vincit
Taneli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 09:05 AM   #8
pawsplay
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

You can add powers to an ordinary piece of equipment. However, that doesn't add any traits to the equipment. Gadget Limitations apply according to whatever the breakability of the item is, but a normal gun or sword or whatever isn't unbreakable unless you pay for that.
pawsplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 10:52 PM   #9
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
In general, I would only require characters to buy Signature Gear if the value of the underlying item was more than 5% starting wealth.
If they can afford it with starting wealth or later gained wealth, charging for signature gear is never necessary, but if they don't take SG then they don't get the perk of the GM being obligated to return the gear to them if it's ever lost/stolen/destroyed with the exception of giving it away. That alone makes SG worth it for anything your Gadget-limited abilities rely on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawsplay View Post
You can add powers to an ordinary piece of equipment. However, that doesn't add any traits to the equipment. Gadget Limitations apply according to whatever the breakability of the item is, but a normal gun or sword or whatever isn't unbreakable unless you pay for that.
The strange thing about gadget limitations is how they're traits for a character, yet they're potentially transferable to other characters if the gadget changes hands if you take a "Can Be Stolen" limit. Which is actually a pretty useful thing for some abilities if you want to let an ally use it temporarily.

B117 halves the value if a THIEF can't IMMEDIATELY use it, but that still kinda implies a thief could eventually figure it out...

So it seems like eventually it is a means for other characters to gain character points by filching your CBS gadgets...

But unless you take "Unique" this doesn't even deprive you of points yourself: broken or stolen gadgets can normally be replaced (so character points are not "lost for good") with GM option of making the time/effort needed to do so "significant".
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 11:57 PM   #10
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Powers with Gadget Limitations - is it the thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawsplay View Post
You can add powers to an ordinary piece of equipment. However, that doesn't add any traits to the equipment. Gadget Limitations apply according to whatever the breakability of the item is, but a normal gun or sword or whatever isn't unbreakable unless you pay for that.
Actually, it is technically unbreakable without extra cost if it does not have Breakable. An unbreakable helmet would still transmit force though and an unbreakable sword (or gun) would have no other unusual traits (they just cannot be damaged or destroyed). In addition, if a gadget does not have Can Be Stolen, it cannot be stolen. For example, you could have a magical sword that cannot be broken or stolen by paying for a 1 CP magical gadget (though the GM will likely make you buy the underlying item as Signature Gear in that case).
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.