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Old 07-31-2020, 06:14 AM   #1
Yssa
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Default Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

For some reason the idea of PC who doesn't carry a weapon popped into my head the other day. Perhaps they like to appear unarmed, perhaps they don't like how it affects their silhouette, perhaps they are sworn to a deity who prohibits arms--for some reason, they've vowed not to own and carry a weapon. This could take two forms: Vow (Use Only Improvised Weapons) or Vow (Carries no Weapons).


Vow (Use Only Improvised Weapons) is obviously more restrictive: When a fight starts, the character would have to Scrounge for a weapon -- a stick, a fire poker, a chair, a bottle, a loose bit of chain, anything. According to Exploits (37) these weapons would be at a -1 to -3 to use depending on how similar they are to the most similar weapon and -1 to -2 per damage (both GM's discretion.)

Vow (Carries no Weapons) would allow the same options, but also allow the character to use actual weapons from disarmed or slain foes (or allies), they'd just have to put abandon the weapon when the fight ended.

In either case, the character would need to spend either some points on a bunch of different weapon skills or a bunch of points on DX to allow them to use a variety of weapons depending on the situation and to soak up the penalties for improvised weapons.

Based on the examples in Adventurers (67), this seems somewhere between Major and Great vow: Uses No Edged Weapons (Major) seems less inhibiting than either while Using No Weapons at All (Great) is obviously more restrictive.

How would your price Vow (Use Only Improvised Weapons) and Vow (Carries no Weapons)?
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

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Originally Posted by Yssa View Post
How would your price Vow (Use Only Improvised Weapons) and Vow (Carries no Weapons)?
It's definitely a judgment call. Great and Major, respectively, I think.
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Old 07-31-2020, 11:10 AM   #3
Anders
 
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

I think "Use no weapons" is canonically worth [-15] in GURPS. DFRPG isn't GURPS but it's close enough so that the costs probably carry over.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:08 PM   #4
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

Then, can said character take Weapon Master (Improvised Weapons), and how many character points would that cost?
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:28 PM   #5
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

I love the improvised weapons concept; every battle would be a bit different. With the "carries no weapons" I would worry that it would be easy enough to just borrow another PC's backup weapon, in which case it might just slow them down a tad at the beginning of combat. If that was somehow forbidden (like the character believes that the Fates will provide a weapon, or not, as they see fit), then it would be similar enough.

As a GM, I'm not wedded to multiples of five. If we figured that one of these was worth 12 points, I'd be fine with that.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yssa View Post
Vow (Use Only Improvised Weapons) is obviously more restrictive:
If the character carried a roll of quarters in a sock in one pocket, or a bola made from boot laces and 1" hex nuts, would that count? That is, could the character improvise weapons ahead of time?
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:16 PM   #7
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

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Originally Posted by thrash View Post
If the character carried a roll of quarters in a sock in one pocket, or a bola made from boot laces and 1" hex nuts, would that count? That is, could the character improvise weapons ahead of time?
I think that would count, or at least it generally would if I were GMing; you could also carve a wooden stake, or carry a rip hammer (but probably not an axe). No good for Vow (Carries no Weapons), but fine for Vow (Use Only Improvised Weapons). Of course, the Vow could also be Vow (Use Only Immediately-Improvised Weapons), which would forbid preparing them in advance.
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Old 08-01-2020, 09:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
I love the improvised weapons concept; every battle would be a bit different. With the "carries no weapons" I would worry that it would be easy enough to just borrow another PC's backup weapon, in which case it might just slow them down a tad at the beginning of combat. If that was somehow forbidden (like the character believes that the Fates will provide a weapon, or not, as they see fit), then it would be similar enough.

As a GM, I'm not wedded to multiples of five. If we figured that one of these was worth 12 points, I'd be fine with that.
Makes sense to me too, if it’s more restrictive than -10, and allows more options than a similar -15, call it a -12.

For the slight difference between them, ye could split it as -12 for Use only Improvised Weapons and -13 for Carry No Weapons (or even Use Only Immediately Improvised Weapons)... a quirky restriction on a Vow :)
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Old 08-04-2020, 09:47 AM   #9
Yssa
 
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrash View Post
If the character carried a roll of quarters in a sock in one pocket, or a bola made from boot laces and 1" hex nuts, would that count? That is, could the character improvise weapons ahead of time?
I'd been imagining it as in the moment, when a fight breaks out, they grab what they can and jump into the fight. However, I think in a scenario in which they knew a fight was coming it would be totally in character to spend some time time sharpening a stake, lashing a knife to the end of a stick, or rooting through the barn to find the most suitable farm tool.

If they always carry the same thing with them, that would probably be okay, as the penalties to hit and damage would still be significant enough to merit the penalty, but it sin't in the spirit of what I envisioned (whatever that means). However, there might actually be a difference: if a character picks up a stick of the ground and hits someone with it, that's an improvised club; if they carry the same stick all the time for the purpose of hitting people, then it's just a poorly made club.
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Old 08-05-2020, 09:13 AM   #10
malloyd
 
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Default Re: Vow (Use only improvised weapons/carries no weapons)

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Originally Posted by Yssa View Post
If they always carry the same thing with them, that would probably be okay, as the penalties to hit and damage would still be significant enough to merit the penalty, but it sin't in the spirit of what I envisioned (whatever that means).
In general a -1 to hit is worth about -4 points (the value of a point of skill to buy it off), or maybe a little less because skill does to other stuff for you. A -1 to damage is about -4 points (equivalent to the Striking ST +2, one attack only -60% you'd need to buy it off), not being able to use impaling damage is worth -1 to -2, and not being able to use either cutting or impaling is worth -3 to -7 (the difference between a melee only crushing or cutting and impaling damage for an Innate Attack that does as much damage as your ST) and by the same approach not being able to use a ranged attack is worth about -2 to -6. Vows that limit your weapon choices should be worth about as much as the absolute best they allow you to attempt on those scales vs. what you would otherwise use.

Given that some "improvised" weapons have no to hit or damage penalties, some have ranges, and some are impaling, use only improvised weapons is arguably worth -0 points, though you'll suffer one of those penalties often enough that -4 or -5 isn't unreasonable. Use no weapons is worth whatever that gives you for your unarmed attacks vs weapons somebody like you would otherwise be expected to use (i.e. it's worth less the more martial arts buffs you have that avoid those drawbacks). "Carries" no weapons I'd hesitate to give you more than a quirk for if an ally can just hand you one and you are perfectly willing to use it, *especially* in a DF game where munchkinizing to the letter rather than the spirit of a vow like that is so often the rule of the day.
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