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Old 12-20-2018, 06:06 AM   #31
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Default Re: Faster Charms and Enchanting

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
You can apply the Time Spent rules to create the charm, but not to the roll to cast the spell it's meant to contain.
Exactly the way I wanted to do it.
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Old 12-20-2018, 06:08 AM   #32
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Default Re: Faster Charms and Enchanting

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Exactly the way I wanted to do it.
I'll note that there is nothing magical about the act of charm creation - it stores a spell and that's it. You get the container right and you're good to go. I'd rule that a -10 to the roll means it takes you a minute to create the charm, not instantly done. So if you have enough energy and the spell is small enough you could create the charm in a minute, tap your mana reserve in a minute, and cast the spell.
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Old 12-20-2018, 06:17 AM   #33
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Default Re: Faster Charms and Enchanting

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
I'll note that there is nothing magical about the act of charm creation - it stores a spell and that's it. You get the container right and you're good to go.
In that case, the requirement for a 'fragile object' is a special effect, not an important balancing limitation, right?

So a Charm that took effect as soon as it was worn and provided some protection or the equivalent for the duration, could be cast on a durable object, as long as you needed to prepare it for the same time beforehand.

The only thing that would change is that instead of being destroyed when the duration expired, the object would instead simply become non-magical at that point and if the caster wanted to use it as a Charm again, he'd have to re-prepare it.

Given that Charm objects are free, are there any pitfalls I'm missing here? Anything that will break (pun not intended) by not using breakable objects as Charm objects for a Charm where the duration starts immediately?

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I'd rule that a -10 to the roll means it takes you a minute to create the charm, not instantly done. So if you have enough energy and the spell is small enough you could create the charm in a minute, tap your mana reserve in a minute, and cast the spell.
Fair enough.
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Old 12-20-2018, 06:32 AM   #34
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Default Re: Faster Charms and Enchanting

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In that case, the requirement for a 'fragile object' is a special effect, not an important balancing limitation, right?
Not really, you could make a charm out of something that isn't breakable if you use the right conditions for it function (say a spell that senses an effect and then goes off). This is basically implied on p. 9 of Pyramid #3/66: The Laws of Magic in the Charms R Us box.

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So a Charm that took effect as soon as it was worn and provided some protection or the equivalent for the duration, could be cast on a durable object, as long as you needed to prepare it for the same time beforehand.
Yes. The person wearing it would be the subject of the spell and it wouldn't take effect until it was worn.

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The only thing that would change is that instead of being destroyed when the duration expired, the object would instead simply become non-magical at that point and if the caster wanted to use it as a Charm again, he'd have to re-prepare it.
Yes. In the past I've used the rules for Magical Patina (GURPS Thaumatology, p. 88), but treated years as times its been used for a magical spell as a charm, e.g., 10 times of casting a spell on a particular bracelet gives a +1 to casting rolls to do it again.

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Given that Charm objects are free, are there any pitfalls I'm missing here? Anything that will break (pun not intended) by not using breakable objects as Charm objects for a Charm where the duration starts immediately?
Nope. It's implicit that you can use non-breakable charms, but you have to be smarter for the conditions of the spell going off so breakable charms are just easier.


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Fair enough.
Otherwise it just gets weird.
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Old 12-20-2018, 07:04 AM   #35
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Default Charms and Attuning to Others

If I want to introduce a ritual that allows a caster to transfer 'ownership' of a Charm over to another individual, with it no longer counting against the Conditional Spells limit for the caster, but instead counting for the person to whom it is attuned, what would be a fair cost?

I'm thinking you could only do this with people who theoretically have the skill to cast the ritual involved, so ones who have access to the Path in question or at least a Thaumatology default. It's basically so that teachers of magic can craft and pass on to students Charms that their students wouldn't attempt on their own, without then being responsible for metaphysically powering that Charm while it lasts.

The person being attuned would have to succeed at a roll to cast the ritual, but wouldn't have to gather the energy (as it is already gathered), and the character who made the Charm would be able to add a substantial bonus to the roll for the recipient by rolling against his own skill, ideally enough of a bonus so that a character who would never attempt to actually cast this spell could attune to an item with the assistance of his teacher. I was thinking of a bonus equal to the teacher's margin of success when rolling against his skill to cast the spell.

In setting terms, it's powering a Charm with the lifeforce and magic of a willing participant, instead of the caster's own lifeforce and magic.

Would this be fairly priced as an Enhancement to Magery (representing knowledge of this method in general), as a ritual-specific Perk, as a Path-specific Perk, Magical Style specific Perk (applying to all rituals within it) or as one Rules Exemption Perk that worked for any and all rituals?

Or would it need to be an Advantage of some sort?
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Old 12-20-2018, 07:09 AM   #36
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Default Re: Charms and Attuning to Others

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
If I want to introduce a ritual that allows a caster to transfer 'ownership' of a Charm over to another individual, with it no longer counting against the Conditional Spells limit for the caster, but instead counting for the person to whom it is attuned, what would be a fair cost?

I'm thinking you could only do this with people who theoretically have the skill to cast the ritual involved, so ones who have access to the Path in question or at least a Thaumatology default. It's basically so that teachers of magic can craft and pass on to students Charms that their students wouldn't attempt on their own, without then being responsible for metaphysically powering that Charm while it lasts.

The person being attuned would have to succeed at a roll to cast the ritual, but wouldn't have to gather the energy (as it is already gathered), and the character who made the Charm would be able to add a substantial bonus to the roll for the recipient by rolling against his own skill, ideally enough of a bonus so that a character who would never attempt to actually cast this spell could attune to an item with the assistance of his teacher. I was thinking of a bonus equal to the teacher's margin of success when rolling against his skill to cast the spell.

In setting terms, it's powering a Charm with the lifeforce and magic of a willing participant, instead of the caster's own lifeforce and magic.

Would this be fairly priced as an Enhancement to Magery (representing knowledge of this method in general), as a ritual-specific Perk, as a Path-specific Perk, Magical Style specific Perk (applying to all rituals within it) or as one Rules Exemption Perk that worked for any and all rituals?

Or would it need to be an Advantage of some sort?
p. 30 of Pyramid #3/56: Prehistory has your answer. :-)
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Old 12-20-2018, 07:15 AM   #37
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Default Re: Charms and Attuning to Others

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p. 30 of Pyramid #3/56: Prehistory has your answer. :-)
Huh.

Well, that I didn't expect. I mean, I actually own that Pyramid, but I never considered checking it for RPM content!

Ok, so, looking it up, I'll make it an Rules Exemption Perk, representing knowledge of certain thaumaturgical methods.

Those without the Perk can try it at Thaumatology-6 for the caster and a basic Thaumatology roll for the receiving party.

Have it take 30 minutes, but rule that the caster can prepare a Charm vessel from the start for another, named recipient, so that there is no extra time involved, except a 1 minute ritual for non-Adepts (Adepts would do this transfer in a second).
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Old 12-20-2018, 07:25 AM   #38
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Default Re: Charms and Attuning to Others

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Huh.

Well, that I didn't expect. I mean, I actually own that Pyramid, but I never considered checking it for RPM content!
Heh. There are rules in their for tattoo charms as well - which are pretty cool if I do say so myself.

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Ok, so, looking it up, I'll make it an Rules Exemption Perk, representing knowledge of certain thaumaturgical methods.
You mean a Rules Option perk?

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Those without the Perk can try it at Thaumatology-6 for the caster and a basic Thaumatology roll for the receiving party.
I'd go with -5 for this - -6 is very steep for something that's "sort of known."

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Have it take 30 minutes, but rule that the caster can prepare a Charm vessel from the start for another, named recipient, so that there is no extra time involved, except a 1 minute ritual for non-Adepts (Adepts would do this transfer in a second).
That was the base idea, yeah. You're spot on.
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Old 12-20-2018, 08:30 AM   #39
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Default Re: Charms and Attuning to Others

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Heh. There are rules in their for tattoo charms as well - which are pretty cool if I do say so myself.
Indeed.

Edward Alvin Smith (PC) had planned to have extensive tattoos, which he did himself while in the Land of the Nommo, using a Leatherman multi-tool and unearthly ichor treated with Nommo Alchemy.

Mostly they'll be used to bind rituals like Hunter's Benediction, Lure, Summon Spirit Dog, Totem, Vermin Vamoose and Wishes to Fishes.

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You mean a Rules Option perk?
Rules Exemption (Charms Occupy Conditions Slots for the Caster) or Rules Option (Charms Transfer). I've written it as the latter, now.

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I'd go with -5 for this - -6 is very steep for something that's "sort of known."
Fair enough.
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:22 AM   #40
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Default Re: Charms and Attuning to Others

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Indeed.

Edward Alvin Smith (PC) had planned to have extensive tattoos, which he did himself while in the Land of the Nommo, using a Leatherman multi-tool and unearthly ichor treated with Nommo Alchemy.

Mostly they'll be used to bind rituals like Hunter's Benediction, Lure, Summon Spirit Dog, Totem, Vermin Vamoose and Wishes to Fishes.
Very cool.


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Rules Exemption (Charms Occupy Conditions Slots for the Caster) or Rules Option (Charms Transfer). I've written it as the latter, now.
Rules Option would be clearer and more concise
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