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Old 03-05-2015, 01:20 AM   #21
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

I would also argue the advise I heard a senior NCO give a junior officer who was wondering how you deal with insubordination.

"Never give an order that aren't sure will be obeyed."

Whilst this may seem like pandering to mutineers, it makes the officer think about the orders he is giving rather than just assuming military discipline is going to automatically solve his poor man-management for him.

So don't make rules that you know your players don't like following. If you force them to play the game the way you like it, you may find that you have a game with only you in it.

If you have one single player spoiling everyone's enjoyment (and they don't have to be breaking the arena rules for that, plenty of people are just not fun to play with because they are too into rules, loop-holing, victimisation etc.) then regretfully dis-invite that player. Extra rules won't necessary prevent them being a PITA and it may stifle the enjoyment of the other players.

If you don't like tire shots, instead of banning them, just impose a house rule that makes them harder or less effective. You could make tires -5 to hit, or better say that any tire hit does a maximum of 1 point of damage per dice. You don't need to explain it, just state it as a condition of play. You can ignore the rule not to shoot a tire, but you can't somehow make your weapon do more damage.

At worst your player will become involved in a protracted argument about the rule before play starts. You can then use this to identify the PITA and dis-invite him before he has too much chance to spoil the event.

Ganging up on some player or evoking the god like powers of the arena designer to "punish" him for breaking a rule is itself victimisation. We have other tools in our social toolbox.

<Besides the OP didn't mention how to prevent cheating, that was 43's saw>
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:44 AM   #22
kjamma4
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicagoland Area, Illinois
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
At worst your player will become involved in a protracted argument about the rule before play starts. You can then use this to identify the PITA and dis-invite him before he has too much chance to spoil the event.
Although, in my opinion, the person that imposes no-tire shots is the PITA. I never like this rule as there are many ways to mitigate some of the impact of tire shots (and in all fairness, you can never eliminate completely that a tire shot is an effective way of dealing with opponents.)

That being said, if all the players agree on it, why not? Since there is no way to accidently hit a tire on a car with a direct fire weapon, just don't allow players to take the tire shot.

Use "handwavium" to say that the arena requires cars to have electronics installed that lock the firing circuits of vehicles attempting tire shots.
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Old 03-05-2015, 03:11 PM   #23
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

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Originally Posted by kjamma4 View Post
That being said, if all the players agree on it, why not? Since there is no way to accidently hit a tire on a car with a direct fire weapon, just don't allow players to take the tire shot.

Use "handwavium" to say that the arena requires cars to have electronics installed that lock the firing circuits of vehicles attempting tire shots.
That is, in fact, how it was handled in the groups I was in -- it was understood tire shots (or what-have-you) weren't allowed, so no one took them; and if some rookie came along and asked "munchkin" questions like "how do you stop someone doing that", then came the flavor-text.

"Divine Fiat" has its charms, but it is occasionally nice to be able to put a "logical" (for the game world) explanation to it -- I'm thinking of the discussion in ADQ when someone suggested "biker gangs have ceased to exist by now", specifically.
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Old 03-07-2015, 10:13 PM   #24
Nikas_Zekeval
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Peoria, IL
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

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Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
Here's one: "How does the arena management enforce rules during events?"

In events I run, tire shots are disallowed; invariably some wiseguy decides "I'm going to take a tire shot anyway -- how's the arena going to stop me?" (The answer involves a couple pounds of Plastique wired into the crew seats, replacing some of the padding so the weight stays the same; and a trigger using IR rather than radio or radar, just in case someone tries to slip a Bollix past Tech. >:) )
Or for the slightly less bloodthirsty, take modern monster truck rallies. After a few accidents with runaway vehicles they have installed remote kill switches. Same thing for an autoduel arena. Any vehicle that performs a disqualifying action finds their engine and weapons remotely locked out. Probably also activates whatever 'surrender/don't shoot' marker the arena might use. Once the event is over any post duel penalties (negative circuit points, arena bans, circuit bans, fines, etc.) are assessed to the driver or crew.

The weapon lockout could be also activate for surrendered vehicles, and possibly whenever a vehicle crosses back into the pits.
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Old 03-08-2015, 03:32 PM   #25
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

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Or for the slightly less bloodthirsty, take modern monster truck rallies. After a few accidents with runaway vehicles they have installed remote kill switches. [...]
[nod] Lockouts were also discussed. However, it was reasoned that given the much-higher stakes involved (namely: Cheating can lead to people getting killed needlessly), a much-higher stake was needed to indicate "cheating will not be tolerated". Scattering a cheater all over the insides of his car *really* hammers the point home.
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Old 03-08-2015, 07:39 PM   #26
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

Require each vehicle have a flechette discharger installed in the steering wheel (and at a targeting console for a gunner). If a rule is broken, the flechette discharger is remotely activated by arena management. The interior damage to the car should be low, permitting the car to be used again. :o)

The main problem with this idea is cleaning the interior of the car might take a while. (Evil smile)
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Old 03-08-2015, 08:24 PM   #27
Nikas_Zekeval
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Peoria, IL
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
[nod] Lockouts were also discussed. However, it was reasoned that given the much-higher stakes involved (namely: Cheating can lead to people getting killed needlessly), a much-higher stake was needed to indicate "cheating will not be tolerated". Scattering a cheater all over the insides of his car *really* hammers the point home.
By the time you need to stop a cheater he's either already finished the deed, or is still working on it. If the later is the case, you need to stop him right now.

Weapons cost money, take time to stop someone, and ruin valuable salvage. Whereas a simple killswitch is instant, and preserves the vehicle. Because the cheater will probably face large fines (and a gauntlet of other duelists with lead lined rubber hoses), and the car is often a duelist's biggest asset.

Which is another argument for the killswitch and getting Draconian in the after duel penalties. See, someone getting splattered in the arena is normal, expected. It being done by the arena might be a couple day's buzz, but not much more. Separating the punishment, particularly if it breaks a cheater financially to the point he can't continue in the division? That gets remembered.
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Old 03-09-2015, 03:36 AM   #28
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

I am not sure what "problem" we are trying to fix here?

If this in-character cheating it can be resolved with interesting role-play opportunities and campaign impact. Rarely is a "your character is instantly killed" option necessary or desirable.

If it is player cheating then dressing this all up is pointless. Just don't let them play. Disallow any effects that their cheating causes, don't dignify it with an in-game explanation. No-one would countenance an over budget or overweight car and make up some rationale to prevent it happening. You just don't get to do it.

Maybe the issue is really people not being clear enough what is an arena rule (which can be broken with consequences) and what is a game rule, that will not be allowed to be broken.
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Old 03-11-2015, 05:58 PM   #29
possumknavel
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NE OK
Default Re: Building a Car Wars Arena

For flavor text - I still would never allow my vehicle to be altered in any way by outside agents before I took it into a competition where all my opponents are out to kill me. If AADA required flechette grenades or plastique installed in my car to enter the arena, I would simply not enter and join BLUD. Would Combat Football require players to have flechette grenades installed in every helmet to take care of cheaters?

If this is an AADA (or whatever organization) rule, then the AADA can do things like ban them from future AADA duels (and its potential payouts) and things like fine the offender up to confiscating his vehicle to pay for the rental of on-hand MMSDs and clone-growth money. It would be trivial to have arenas keep a couple of MMSDs on hand for this reason.

-John
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