Why I don't like Affliction and Malediction

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Bruno

The thing I want to playtest is to to make the "special enhancements" for Affliction (such as Condition and Disadvantage) be setting up the base price of the advantage (including subsequent levels), and then apply all the other enhancements and limitations to THAT net value.

That, and remove the special-pleading case of Affliction and Malediction - Malediction removes the to-hit roll, not the damage roll, on Innate Attacks; the equivalent of the damage roll on Affliction is the subjects Resistance roll (modified by the level of the Affliction) but Malediction gets to remove it anyways for the same price.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I'm not sure it's a proper comparison. Malediction-IAs ignore DR, yes. But they pit the Will against enemy Will/HT; Malediction-Afflictions ignore DR, and pit Will against enemy HT.

It's not the ignore DR part[1] - that's consistent across both uses. The part that gets my goat is that the way Affliction has it's special interaction with Malediction, it's a Economically-inefficient idea to take Affliction: Heart Attack and Cosmic: Irresistable (or some other large collection of enhancements) and then multiple levels of Affliction to penalize the subsequent HT roll.

Instead, for a flat 10-20 points you should take Malediction, and then have fun buying up your Will (which is good for many things) and possibly slapping Reliable on there (extra cheap, +2 on the contest for 1 point).[2] Once you've got Malediction, it's even more wrong to buy Affliction 2+ outside of some corner cases. You'd usually be better off buying as much Extra Attack (Affliction only, -60%) as the GM will let you buy, assuming you've already maxed out Will and any Reliable the GM might let you buy.

But, I'm totally side-tracking this.

[1] My complaint about Maledictions bundling "ignore DR" in with the "turn attack/defense roll into quick contest is a side issue. I want those separable. I also think it's making Cosmic: Irresistable too expensive, which is obnoxious.

[2] AND you bypass DR for free, see footnote #1 as to why that annoys me.

[the_matrix_walker]

The issue lies mainly with Affliction needing a diminished price after the first level. It should be priced more like 10 points for the first level and 3 per added level.

Alternatively, Reliable (Which is not available for Ranged Attacks in the RAW, so cannot be purchased on Affliction) should be included as a Special Enhancement at a modified price, probably +40% per level or so.

Note that Extra Attack, one attack only is only -20%, the inverse value as Multistrike.

[Icelander]

I changed the base value of subsequent levels of Affliction to 2/level in my games some two years ago and aside from being cludgy in GCA, it has addressed my concerns beautifully. Now Malediction with Reliable is no longer the only sane build for Afflictions which are hard to resist and all is good in the world.

[munin]

Malediction is worth +100% just for being able to turn the attack/defend rolls into a quick contest (maybe go down to +50%, because you lose the possibility of some ranged options like Rapid Fire, but probably not).

That Malediction ignores DR as well is quite worth the +300% that Cosmic, Irresistible Attack costs (and which I thik is a fair price for ignoring defenses). So, as described, I think Malediction should start at +400%.

The problem with separating them out, though, is what would a "quick contest that doesn't ignore DR" look like? If you're not making an attack roll, how do you know which hit location DR should be applied to the target's roll?

[Pagan]

Outside of an intellectual exercise in game number crunching, I don't see the problem. Any GM that lets a player get these abilities knows what they are in for, and deserves what they get. If it is for an NPC then there is no need to stat it out. NPC has a beam that causes a Heart Attack if victim fails HT -8 roll (or any penalty you might decide on).

[Nereidalbel]

The one thing I think a lot of people forget about Malediction is the heavy penalties you take to your rolls when not using a Melee-limited version. Unless you're going for the maximum level of Malediction, range penalties really suck, and giving them a Melee limitation (should) allow for Dodge/Block/Parry.

Malediction-Proof DR being the same cost as Cosmic is a bit of an issue, considering how little Malediction really costs for Affliction, though.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Pagan

Outside of an intellectual exercise in game number crunching, I don't see the problem.

The problem is that Affliction is essentially useless as a non-Malediction, and overpowered as a Malediction.

[Pagan]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The problem is that Affliction is essentially useless as a non-Malediction, and overpowered as a Malediction.

Hmmm, I've used them in my game since they were first introduced and haven't had a problem. How exactly is Affliction useless?

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by Pagan

Hmmm, I've used them in my game since they were first introduced and haven't had a problem. How exactly is Affliction useless?

Any armor at all easily brings Affliction to the point of only working when the target rolls a 17 or an 18. When you have to roll to hit, your target gets to roll to dodge/block/parry, AND they have a resistance roll of HT + DR, you end up with something that usually results in a waste of your time, while somebody with an axe kills you much more efficiently.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Pagan

Hmmm, I've used them in my game since they were first introduced and haven't had a problem. How exactly is Affliction useless?

They aren't. The first level is fine. It's just useless to buy more than Affliction 1 instead of going for Malediction for resisted Afflictions.

Afflictions which buff allies are entirely unaffected by this problem, as no one buys more than Affliction 1.

So, technically, are Afflictions that are meant to be easily resistable, such as something modelling a stunning attack that must be aimed at unprotected areas and only rarely works on healthy people, but such a thing would be relevant only in a very-low powered Supers campaign or something similar.