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Old 12-22-2020, 09:30 PM   #11
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Cosmic, No Roll Required, does not give you a roll of 3, it gives you success as long as you have an effective skill of 3+ (Powers, p. 101).
For non-margin based abilities, that seems like a distinction without difference.
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Old 12-23-2020, 12:46 AM   #12
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

A '3' is almost always a critical success, which often has beneficial effects beyond the margin of success.
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Old 12-23-2020, 06:47 AM   #13
munin
 
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Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
…On the other, you can get a Margin Of Success greater than 0…
You can get a margin of success greater than 0 with normal NDRR, you're just guaranteed at least MoS zero:

"If your ability’s effectiveness is based on your margin of success (e.g., Maledictions, Mind Reading), roll anyway to determine that margin; if you fail, treat it as success with a margin of 0." (Power-Ups 6, p. 8)

It's not an automatic "Take 3", but it still allows margin of success. A "Take 10" mechanic allows you to plan on guaranteed margins, but you still need to work to get them (getting close to your foe to reduce ranged penalties, seeking advantageous conditions, etc.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
…you always rolls a 10…
Literally? You can't choose to attempt something more difficult by rolling? Then this means easier things are guaranteed but harder things are impossible (where they might not be impossible if you could try a roll). That's a drawback because not being able to try difficult things when the chips are down is narratively less interesting.

Another enhancement to compare it to is "Stable Casting, +40%" (Thuamatology, pp. 28-29) which makes critical failures much less likely, whereas "Take 10" makes them impossible.

Overall, I'd call "Must Take 10" a +50% enhancement.
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Old 12-23-2020, 07:42 AM   #14
malloyd
 
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Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

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Originally Posted by munin View Post
Overall, I'd call "Must Take 10" a +50% enhancement.
That seems about right. Another way you could think of it as No Roll Required, except it only works if your chance is at least 10, rather than 3, effectively -7 levels of Reliable, plus something for you can't get lucky and do better than 10 either.

Note that for resisted effects this may actually make it more likely than usual your opponents will resist. More often than not if your ability worked at all you'd have rolled a margin more than you get with a fixed 10, and because of the Rule of 16, unless their resistance is high enough you get to roll against a higher target than 16, they never have to beat a margin of success of more than 6.
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Old 12-23-2020, 10:25 AM   #15
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Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

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Originally Posted by munin View Post
"If your ability’s effectiveness is based on your margin of success (e.g., Maledictions, Mind Reading), roll anyway to determine that margin; if you fail, treat it as success with a margin of 0." (Power-Ups 6, p. 8)
Ahhh... I had missed that.
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Old 12-23-2020, 11:30 AM   #16
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

I'd be tempted to go with +50%, and allow the player to choose if he wants to roll or "Take 10*" on any given check. Being disallowed a roll is a Limitation, perhaps worth -25%**, but must be combined with the above (call it Take 10 Only +25% or similar).

*As Ghostdancer previously suggested, Take 11 is probably more appropriate (leaning on the "bad" side of average, much as d20's Take 10 rule does), with +5% per -1 to the result. Actually, it should probably be an increasing price as you go, as otherwise you could technically make it Take 3 +85%, which is obviously far too cheap for that. Maybe something like the following.
Code:
Roll	Price
16	+20%
15	+30%
14	+40%
13	+45%
12	+47.5%
11	+50%
10	+55%
9	+65%
8	+80%
7	+100%
6	+125%
5	+160%
4	+200%
Note I left off rolls of 3, simply because any time you have an effective skill of 3 or higher (that is, are allowed a roll), a roll of 4 is sufficient for a Critical Success. This is a rough draft - +300% may be more appropriate for rolls of 4, for example ("Always Critically Succeeds" is a pretty big deal).

**This is probably worth less as a Limitation the lower the roll, and more as a Limitation the higher the roll, but I'm not sure what rate it should change. Certainly, it's +0% for a roll of 4, and probably -40% for a roll of 14 (for a net +0% there), but I don't know beyond that.
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Old 12-23-2020, 12:18 PM   #17
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
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Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I'd be tempted to go with +50%, and allow the player to choose if he wants to roll or "Take 10*" on any given check. Being disallowed a roll is a Limitation, perhaps worth -25%**, but must be combined with the above (call it Take 10 Only +25% or similar).

*As Ghostdancer previously suggested, Take 11 is probably more appropriate (leaning on the "bad" side of average, much as d20's Take 10 rule does), with +5% per -1 to the result. Actually, it should probably be an increasing price as you go, as otherwise you could technically make it Take 3 +85%, which is obviously far too cheap for that. Maybe something like the following.
Code:
Roll	Price
16	+20%
15	+30%
14	+40%
13	+45%
12	+47.5%
11	+50%
10	+55%
9	+65%
8	+80%
7	+100%
6	+125%
5	+160%
4	+200%
Note I left off rolls of 3, simply because any time you have an effective skill of 3 or higher (that is, are allowed a roll), a roll of 4 is sufficient for a Critical Success. This is a rough draft - +300% may be more appropriate for rolls of 4, for example ("Always Critically Succeeds" is a pretty big deal).

**This is probably worth less as a Limitation the lower the roll, and more as a Limitation the higher the roll, but I'm not sure what rate it should change. Certainly, it's +0% for a roll of 4, and probably -40% for a roll of 14 (for a net +0% there), but I don't know beyond that.
For "Take X Only", perhaps move 2 or 3 rows up the chart? So "Take 4 Only" might be worth +100%, "Take 11 Only" might be +40%, and "Take 14 Only" would be inaccessible.
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Old 12-23-2020, 12:40 PM   #18
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! View Post
For "Take X Only", perhaps move 2 or 3 rows up the chart? So "Take 4 Only" might be worth +100%, "Take 11 Only" might be +40%, and "Take 14 Only" would be inaccessible.
Take 4 Only is always at least equal to, and generally better than, No Dice Roll Required - for any roll that NDRR would turn into an automatic success (effective skill 3 or more), Take 4 Only would turn into an automatic critical success (with effective skill 3 or higher, you are allowed a roll, and a roll of 4 is always a critical success; Take 4 Only could even allow you to auto-crit in cases where NDRR doesn't help, like if you're doing a Power Parry with effective skill below 3 - you can always attempt a defense roll and hope for crit, even if effective skill is somehow -20).

Also, Take 4 Only and Take 4 are very nearly exactly the same. The only case where you would theoretically want to roll instead of Taking 4 would be if critical success is insufficient, and you need to actually roll a 3. I think that would only happen in a Quick Contest where your opponent had a critical success with a MoS that would beat your MoS if you rolled a 4, but wouldn't if you rolled a 3, and that strikes me as a vanishingly unlikely occurrence. Also, if it does happen, the chance getting to roll would actually help you is pretty darn low (0.46%, the probability of rolling 3 on 3d6).

I like setting Take 14 Only at +0%, based on a Gaming Ballistic article (I think it was) about basically assuming everyone rolls a 14 for passive use of skills (so a character who isn't specifically paying attention can be assumed to roll a 14 on Perception/Observation, a thief who isn't specifically trying to be stealthy is still harder to notice than Joe Average by assuming they each rolled a 14 on Shadowing/Stealth, etc).
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Old 12-23-2020, 01:32 PM   #19
Say, it isn't that bad!
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Default Re: Cosmic: Always rolls a 10 (+xx%)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Take 4 Only is always at least equal to, and generally better than, No Dice Roll Required - for any roll that NDRR would turn into an automatic success (effective skill 3 or more), Take 4 Only would turn into an automatic critical success (with effective skill 3 or higher, you are allowed a roll, and a roll of 4 is always a critical success; Take 4 Only could even allow you to auto-crit in cases where NDRR doesn't help, like if you're doing a Power Parry with effective skill below 3 - you can always attempt a defense roll and hope for crit, even if effective skill is somehow -20).

Also, Take 4 Only and Take 4 are very nearly exactly the same. The only case where you would theoretically want to roll instead of Taking 4 would be if critical success is insufficient, and you need to actually roll a 3. I think that would only happen in a Quick Contest where your opponent had a critical success with a MoS that would beat your MoS if you rolled a 4, but wouldn't if you rolled a 3, and that strikes me as a vanishingly unlikely occurrence. Also, if it does happen, the chance getting to roll would actually help you is pretty darn low (0.46%, the probability of rolling 3 on 3d6).

I like setting Take 14 Only at +0%, based on a Gaming Ballistic article (I think it was) about basically assuming everyone rolls a 14 for passive use of skills (so a character who isn't specifically paying attention can be assumed to roll a 14 on Perception/Observation, a thief who isn't specifically trying to be stealthy is still harder to notice than Joe Average by assuming they each rolled a 14 on Shadowing/Stealth, etc).
That all makes sense; so yeah, "Take X Only" should have its own chart, then.

I remember that Gaming Ballistic article, now. Assuming a 14 for passive use is a good default, IMO.
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