Infantry

[DSumner]

Infantry

OK, since it looks like SJ is open to tinkering with certain OM units, I figured I’d through my $.02 in on a few things.

Militia - I know I’ve said it before, and I’m saying it again, Militia, in OM, is just too freaking cheap. Their cost needs to be increased and brought in line with the board game version, period. And I know I can’t be the only one, besides Henry Cobb, who thinks this.

Marines - Marines, IMHO, are just to expensive for what they do. Come on, 4 points so you can operate in the water? I could see 3 points (barely), as they do fill a specialized role (although why you would need a separate type of battlesuit for water ops if the thing can already stand up to pretty much any chem, nuke, bio hazard, and small arms fire attack is beyond me).

Engineers - I love 'em, they are, IMHO, the single most versatile unit in the game, and may be TO cheap for all of the stuff they can do. I’d also suggest that in addition to their normal duties, that they be allowed to plant minefields. They do it in the real world now, have been doing it for decades, and I see no reason that they’ll stop doing it in the future.

Heavy Weapons - Other than me bitching about them being way to expensive for what they do (They only get one freaking shot), you can see my thoughts in the HW on this forum.

[Dragon505]

I like the Marines and the Engineers just as they are as far as points go. I like the idea of laying mines fields. Add to that clearing mine fields as the converse. Also Add the Combat Engineer Vehicle (CEV) from the Ogre Book. I have some 1/285th engineer vehicles (U.S. version) from GHQ painted up a neutral color scheme so I can use the with any faction. I have used them in a secenario I wrote (worked O.K.).


Respectfully,
Dragon505

[DSumner]

Originally Posted by Dragon505

Add to that clearing mine fields as the converse.

Oops...I forgot to list that.

Originally Posted by Dragon505

Also Add the Combat Engineer Vehicle (CEV) from the Ogre Book.

I liked them too, and wold like to see them included in the game at some point, along with a scenario or two for their use.

[mxslade]

I know I am coming in on this conversation a little late, but it occurred to me as I was working on something, since OGRE/GEV and OGRE Miniatures is being redone; why not track Infantry types with a sheet like in Starship Troopers?

You could track Hvy and the proposed Missle units and their ammo & abilities just like you in Starship Troopers, I use a piece a paper to track the SHVY not much of a stretch to do the same with INF types.

Just a thought.

[DSumner]

Originally Posted by mxslade

I know I am coming in on this conversation a little late, but it occurred to me as I was working on something, since OGRE/GEV and OGRE Miniatures is being redone; why not track Infantry types with a sheet like in Starship Troopers?

You could track Hvy and the proposed Missle units and their ammo & abilities just like you in Starship Troopers, I use a piece a paper to track the SHVY not much of a stretch to do the same with INF types.

Just a thought.

I haven't played SST since the mid 80's, and I don't have my rulebook handy (it's back in the US), so my memory is a little foggy. Is there any way you could you post an example?

[selenite]

Here's the control sheet he's referencing:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/90049
If a trooper is equipped with a heavy weapon of some sort that's circled on his block and crossed off as the ammo is used up.

That's a bit elaborate for HW INF, since it's just a yes/no box for each one. My preference is to replace HW with regular INF after firing to save booking unless you're, ahem, reloading them. Then you've got to give them an ID number or something.

[DSumner]

Thanks for the link, I hadn't seen one of those sheets in years. As for as something for use with Ogre, I suppose something similar could be whipped up. As far as the rest of my ramblings go, any comments?

[selenite]

Originally Posted by DSumner

As far as the rest of my ramblings go, any comments?

Having Militia go away would be fine with me. If nukes are being thrown around anything without a layer of BPC is D0. Really, militia should vanish if there's any spillover in their hex.

I'd be all for 3VP Marine squads, they never get chosen unless you have a scenario that forces you to use them.

As for engineers, I love 'em and gave them a few more things to do in the Poor Bloody Infantry article (digging entrenchments and laying smoke).

[DSumner]

Originally Posted by selenite

Having Militia go away would be fine with me. If nukes are being thrown around anything without a layer of BPC is D0. Really, militia should vanish if there's any spillover in their hex.

From the description of "Militia" in both OM and Ogre Battlefields, Militia sounds more like straight leg light infantry, than second line troops. I don't have a problem with them (and I'd suspect that some nations would have a significant number of them), I just think they should cost more in OM.

Originally Posted by selenite

I'd be all for 3VP Marine squads, they never get chosen unless you have a scenario that forces you to use them.

I can see 3 points (as they do have some special abilities), but 4 points? I'm just not buying that one. They're not that great of a unit.

Originally Posted by selenite

As for engineers, I love 'em and gave them a few more things to do in the Poor Bloody Infantry article (digging entrenchments and laying smoke).

Other than vanilla INF, ENG are without a doubt the best buy in the game, and well worth the four points you spend on them. They're literally life savers.

[Marcus Heinous]

Here's my take:

Marines - Their cost vs. usefulness varies relative to location and area of water on the map. In Icepick, I could see where there were about twice as useful as regular infantry. In Body Blow they make for an excellent 'round the horn' threat. Load them up in GEV-PCs and skirt the perimeter until you reach the big lake, then bail out and move in. But for the most part, there isn't enough water in the right areas of the map to justify the cost of 4VPs, so I'd agree with 3 VPs.

Combat Engineers - Love them! 4 VPs seems right to me, but maybe I haven't played them enough in play test mode. I can't recall the CEV stats off the top of my head, so I obviously haven't played with those enough, if ever. Also, since Marine Combat Engineers are listed as 5 VPs in OM, the logic holds nicely (CE capability is +2 VPs per squad) and no more rule rewrites are required.

Heavy Weapons - I liked Henry Cobb's idea of not using a one shot weapon unit in the game, just give them a much longer range with regular attack strength. I have played with them as: A1 R3 D1 M1 (yes, Move 1) 4 VPs. Again, in the few games I've played using them this way they didn't seem to unbalance the game play. Load up a full platoon in a GEV-PC and you have a MSL GEV with 2 attacks per turn! =) Of course I also play with a home brew rule that Infantry can only mount/dismount a vehicle at the start of the movement phase (either one regards to GEVs) with an overrun combat exclusion, so that may add to their tentative balance in my game playing (one well placed shot can wipe out the whole lot of them). For what it's worth I do not have/allow Marine Heavy Weapon units or Heavy Weapon Combat Engineers.

Militia - These are nuclear myths and should not be mentioned in intelligent conversation.

Other Infantry Types - I have only 'dabbled' in one extra Infantry type, Drop Infantry. I cobbled these rules together about 2 years after G.E.V. was released, but before the advent of Laser Turrets and Laser Towers to our games (I wish I had a Spacegamer subscription way back then), when they showed up we just chucked the Drop Infantry. They were no more or less powerful than the regular Infantry, just had a 'cooler' deployment option ('cooler' to my 13 year old, heavily influenced by Starship Troopers & The Forever War eyes that is). I think I had them as twice as expensive as regular Infantry, so 4 VPs.