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Old 04-12-2008, 07:15 AM   #11
Brandy
 
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Default Re: Paying for Casting a Spell

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf
On the one hand, you point out that he probably can't cast spells as fast as he can recover fatigue, because he can't guarantee he'll have customers coming for all those spells. On the other, you point out that he has a larger fatigue pool than I estimated. Which is it? =)
Both. :) I did say that I was picking nits.


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They're both valid points, and if you look at my math, you'll note I fudged the numbers (40 fatigue/day instead of 48 + fatigue pool) to account for some of these factors. There's still enough slip to do it however you like, though.
FWIW, I probably am cognizant of it because I have house rules that give mages a larger pool of spell casting "points" relative to their recovery than the RAW. For mages in my game, it is a significant difference.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:01 AM   #12
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Default Re: Paying for Casting a Spell

Hijacking the thread, as it's on the nose for topic.

In our DF(RPG) campaign(s), we've come to the conclusion that one successful casting of Analyze Magic is about $100, or 5 silver pieces on the standard coin scale. Analyze Magic takes 1 hour to cast, and the caster recovers the energy in 80 minutes (or, more likely in 40 minutes with Recover Energy-15). So, it takes about 2.5 hours (including visiting the store, etc) for a Skill-14 caster to get the customer sorted out, the spell cast, and the fatigue recovered.

2.5 hours is around 1/3rd of a working day (taking time for lunch, etc), so if they get paid $100 for it, they would be making about $300 per day. However, they only get paid if they have customers coming in (and also, they do manage to mess up the casting from time to time, and need to recast), so they might only be able to cast the spell once a day, in which case, getting paid $100 per day isn't too bad. The rest of the day is probably spent handling paperwork, and advertising the business (that is, ranting about their latest divinations on the high street).

Also, in our campaign(s), NPC wizards tend to be more well-off rather than what the standard GURPS Magic assumes.

Anyway, how does this compare to other spells? Analyze Magic is after all quite special with it's casting time being an hour. Well, divinations are similar in that they also have a one hour casting time and similar energy cost (10 vs 8 for Analyze), and probably similar demand too, so those would be around $100 (plus the cost of any costly material components, and maybe a surcharge).

Other, faster to cast spells would be different. The cost mainly depends on how much the casters are assumed to be making, and how many clients do they have, and also, where are they going to be doing the casting. If they're casting in their own store, it is of course faster to do magic, than it is if they need to travel to a location. Also, is the spell going to be a one-time thing, or something that needs to be maintained? (Maintainable spells should probably be costlier than single casting spells that take no time to maintain).

I haven't managed to get any hard and fast ruling out of this, but have priced a daylight -level Continual Light at about $40 per casting, etc
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:26 AM   #13
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Default Re: Paying for Casting a Spell

For one take on this, see GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Setting: Caverntown, pp. 44-45. Note that the costs there assume that NPC guild members have unspecified off-screen resources that allow them to monopolize casting for hire by undercutting just about everybody else. I didn't spell out what those might be, but in my mind it's the difference between PCs running on expensive batteries and NPCs in town being plugged into the mains right next to a huge hydro plant.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: Paying for Casting a Spell

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
For one take on this, see GURPS Dungeon Fantasy Setting: Caverntown, pp. 44-45. Note that the costs there assume that NPC guild members have unspecified off-screen resources that allow them to monopolize casting for hire by undercutting just about everybody else. I didn't spell out what those might be, but in my mind it's the difference between PCs running on expensive batteries and NPCs in town being plugged into the mains right next to a huge hydro plant.
Oh yes, of course, Cavertown, I forgot that, thank you!

Yes, it looks like I'm (roughly) pricing stuff at around $10 per energy point, whereas the cost in Caverntown are explicitly at around $5 per energy point. Sounds about right, with the assumption about undercut prices.
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: Paying for Casting a Spell

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Oh yes, of course, Cavertown, I forgot that, thank you!

Yes, it looks like I'm (roughly) pricing stuff at around $10 per energy point, whereas the cost in Caverntown are explicitly at around $5 per energy point. Sounds about right, with the assumption about undercut prices.
One thing to note is this rule from p. 39 of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3:
Your ER recharges separately from FP at 1 point/10 minutes, no matter what you're doing. The appropriate Recover Energy spell accelerates this as usual.
Or its equivalent from p. 48 of Dungeon Fantasy Adventurers:
Your Energy Reserve recharges separately from FP at one point per 10 minutes, no matter what you're doing. The related Recover Energy spell (Spells, p. 38) accelerates this as usual.
Assuming that guild wizards and temple clerics are at least as good as adventurers at magic (not necessarily at exploring, fighting, sneaking, and survival!), they'll routinely have FP 12-14 and ER 13-15, and so be able to cast spells twice as often.

Moreover, these established guild and temple members in town are the same NPCs who recharge power items! If they ask $5 per energy point from random strangers ("retail"), their personal costs are bound to be less ("wholesale") – anything from "a little less than $5" down to "essentially free." Thus, they might even be able to cast three times as often without jacking up their costs much.

And all this assumes they don't have very high mana/sanctity work areas in their facilities, which they might. If so, personal FP are essentially infinitely reusable, and spells that cost less than around 12 FP are close to effortless. You're just helping them pay rent on the facility and whatever measures are in place to keep it from blowing up.

It would be reasonable to set things up so that there's a divisor of 2, 3, or 4 on the "logical" cost to cast spells. Caverntown more or less assumes that yes, the fairest cost for a casterwho must use personal FP and only personal FP, and then recover, is around $10/point. But it then applies a divisor of 3 (for access to Energy Reserve, cheap recharges, and very high mana/sanctity), to get $3.33, and treats this as a wholesale price that's marked up 50% to retail ($5). Or maybe I applied a divisor of 4, to get $2.50, and marked it up 100% to retail ($5). One of those.

The point is that in settings where magic replaces technology as an everyday thing even ordinary householders use; where guilds and temples work more like Apple, ExxonMobil, Johnson & Johnson, Microsoft, or Samsung than like anything medieval; and where even bringing people back from the dead and granting wishes are just high-end services for the rich, like cosmetic surgery and round-the-world cruises . . . well, non-enchantment castings are going to be almost pedestrian.
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:06 AM   #16
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Default Re: Paying for Casting a Spell

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
One thing to note is this rule from p. 39 of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 3:
Your ER recharges separately from FP at 1 point/10 minutes, no matter what you're doing. The appropriate Recover Energy spell accelerates this as usual

Also note page 119 of powers:



An ER recharges by one point every 10 minutes, independent of rest. You can recover FP at the same time if you rest.



Just for completeness.


Also, I completely agree with those who are saying wizards should be wealthy.
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:30 AM   #17
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Default Re: Paying for Casting a Spell

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Also, I completely agree with those who are saying wizards should be wealthy.
. . . but with the assumptions I've made in DF (either version), I'd say, "Wealthy like a good commissioned salesman, or the typical therapist, or a junior partner in a law firm," and not, "Wealthy like the VIP, director, or owner of a company, or a top neurosurgeon, or a senior partner in a law firm." The latter view fits worlds with modest levels of magic, as on Yrth, but not ones where there are so many trained spellcasters that even ordinary freemen have magical orange zesters and healthcare, and large numbers of magic-users figure they're as likely to strike it rich serving as mercenaries in the world's hellholes as working at safe jobs in town.
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