Kindly Necromancers

[tanksoldier]

. Strictly speaking, this was 100% by the book: The Resurrection spell does not specify that the dead body can't have been previously reanimated by necromancy. The Zombie spell does not state that it prevents later resurrection. In fact, both spells have roughly the same requirement: a relatively intact corpse.

Not sure what rules you’re using...

In past DnD games casting Resurrection on undead destroyed the undead... so resurrecting an undead would require two castings of Resurrection... one to make the undead simply dead, and another to resurrect the now re-dead corpse.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

Not sure what rules you’re using...

GURPS rules.

In past DnD games...

Well, now I think I see your problem.

[tanksoldier]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

GURPS rules.


Well, now I think I see your problem.

Well, sure but I wasn't sure of the rules he was talking about.

Fair bet Kromm has played other systems besides GURPS.

...and it depends on the "philosophy" of your campaign and rules system.

In most DnD settings undead are touched by evil, or negative energy.... in others less so... and in GURPS magic that doesn't seem to enter into it by rule... but it probably would still be a consideration in any campaign I ran.

[Kax]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

In past DnD games casting Resurrection on undead destroyed the undead... so resurrecting an undead would require two castings of Resurrection... one to make the undead simply dead, and another to resurrect the now re-dead corpse.

Easy to fix: kill the undead first, making sure not to dismember it. Although some GMs would allow Make Whole to work on the parts of a corpse.

Nice necromancer. :)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

Well, sure but I wasn't sure of the rules he was talking about.

Fair bet Kromm has played other systems besides GURPS.

...and it depends on the "philosophy" of your campaign and rules system.

In most DnD settings undead are touched by evil, or negative energy.... in others less so... and in GURPS magic that doesn't seem to enter into it by rule... but it probably would still be a consideration in any campaign I ran.

Actually in GURPS Magic Zombies are described as having a "death tinged aura". In my Urban Magic Apocalypse setting, one of many, many things that go wrong as the civilization collapses is that over-use of zombies leading first to the failure of healing and fertility magics and then zombies going feral.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by corwyn

Up to this point, I was sure the necromancer in question was your namesake. In fact, I thought that you had told that story in days gone by about Dr. Kromm with his Zombie-50.

There were many PCs and NPCs who went by "Kromm." There were at least two necromancers by that name, one a PC (who was never powerful enough to have any spell at level 50!) and one an NPC. There were also three physicians, two alchemists, a naturalist, a rocket scientist, and a wealthy dilettante. These were spread over several game systems, including not just GURPS but also All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Call of Cthulhu (the most memorable Kromm), Champions, James Bond 007 (the first Kromm), Space Opera, and Unhallowed Metropolis.

The "Kromm" you're remembering me tell of wasn't really an RPG character but a one-off combatant in a series of Man to Man + GURPS Fantasy combats I played through with some friends in the age of GURPS First Edition. I just wanted to see whether it was possible to raise zombies effortlessly in combat time. It was, just barely, under the First Edition rules. It wasn't actually useful, though, because the character in question was 100% squishy and had to hang back, avoid all action, and wait for somebody to die. Since that strategy left my side down one fighter, the dying happened on our side first, and turning my dead ally into a zombie didn't prove very useful.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by tanksoldier

Not sure what rules you’re using...

GURPS Magic.

[Tuk the Weekah]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, no, actually, I didn't know what you meant. In fact, I'm still not sure that I do.

I write books for Steve Jackson Games. I enjoy doing it, so part of my motive is personal satisfaction, which is about as self-interested as you can get. But part of it is getting paid, and wanting to do books that will earn a return shapes my work. And I think that's self-interested too. And I'm not sure I can see a way in which my work "benefits the common good." It enables people to pursue a hobby that gives them pleasure, but that itself is self-interested behavior on their part. It kind of looks like elephants all the way down. So I think by your criterion, my writing GURPS books might have to be classified as "having crossed the line from good to bad." And I don't think that makes sense. But I'm not able to define the line you're drawing in a way that doesn't imply this.

I would, respectfully, suggest that both you, and the baker, butcher, etc., are, in fact, acting in the common good.

As society becomes more complex, people within that society become more specialized. Where once the average person could be expected to know how to quern grain, slaughter, butcher, and cook an animal, or tell an engaging story around the fire at night, most of us have specialized in very tight niches that have left us without those skills--and, by and large, without the time to engage those skills, if we have them.

Therefore, we out-source them. I do have the knowledge to kill, skin, hang, age, and butcher a lamb, and then how to french the ribs to give me what my daughter cheerfully refers to as "lamb-pops". But that process would take me a week or so; so I subcontract all that labour to my local butcher and just purchase frenched lamb ribs from him. This provides me with the time to pursue my own specialized skillset, and provides him with an income. And he is able to pursue his niche, knowing that someone out there can make a sign, or design advertising, for his business, and he will not have to do it himself.

The game designer provides a similar service as a butcher, in this analogy. The average person could, likely, sit down and come up with a structure to hang a story upon; but for most, this would e a time-consuming effort that would be inferior to the effort(s) of someone who has deliberately honed their storytelling skillset in order to fill this niche in society. My communal storytelling efforts will be better (more enjoyable entertainment) because they have your better framework to rest on, just as my frenched lamb ribs will be more appealing because someone else did a better job of butchering & cleaning them than I would have, and in less time.

The butcher, the baker--and the game designer--take on roles that have been basically abandoned, or set aside, by most members of a complexly-specialized society in order to pursue their own specialized skillset. By definition, this is for the betterment of society, because it allows a far greater amount of work to be undertaken by an expert in that work, which inherently means the work is done more efficiently, which inherently creates economic growth.

I know for a fact, as a reader of these boards, that there are military and police members who use GURPS, and, specifically your work. Your specialization in the art of communal storytelling allows them to better enjoy that experience while still allowing them the time to specialize in their chosen fields. So, thank you for your service to the common good. You are, in fact, making the world a safer place by making games.

If you look at it in the right way, of course.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Tuk the Weekah

I would, respectfully, suggest that both you, and the baker, butcher, etc., are, in fact, acting in the common good.

Thank you!

A) for getting it, and B) providing a better explanation of my thoughts than I was capable!

[Plane]

I could see a nice necromancer being open about their abilities and offering stuff like "for a modest fee in advance, upon your death I will reanimate your corpse to help your children carry buckets of well water, harvest crops, and plant seeds, for the next 20 years!".

It could function like a cheap form of life insurance. It's also a lot less suspicious than "pay me and upon your death (which hopefully won't happen for a long time, wink wink) your body will become my servant" which seems too much like incentive for a necromancer to murder you. Instead it's the usual suspicion of family members trying to murder you for inheritance.