Affliction: Insubstantiality question

[Bathawk]

I was curious as to how you would price this. Normally as an advantage; It would cost +10% for every point the advantage is worth; ergo Insubstantiality would be +800%

But this assumes your granting the power to another individual, that they can turn it on and off at will. Turning a villain ghostly for example, but where he can't turn it off is a different matter

One option is to treat it as an "always on" limitation. For insubstantiality that would be -50%, making insubstantiality cause 40pts. base an thus a +400% enhancement

Another would be to price it as a disadvatage, so it's still treated as an 80pt. advantage but only as +80% enhancement, placing it in the realm of other "incapacitations" which range from +50%-+200%

Lastly is to simply leave it at +800%, and have wether it is "always on" or not as a special effect. it may be debilitating to opponent, but still useful to allies....just having to wait for it to "wear off" being an inconvenience (In fact I think there is a published "minimum duration" limitation somewhere, perhaps in Psionics

Any thoughts are appreciated

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

I was curious as to how you would price this. Normally as an advantage; It would cost +10% for every point the advantage is worth; ergo Insubstantiality would be +800%

But this assumes your granting the power to another individual, that they can turn it on and off at will. Turning a villain ghostly for example, but where he can't turn it off is a different matter

One option is to treat it as an "always on" limitation. For insubstantiality that would be -50%, making insubstantiality cause 40pts. base an thus a +400% enhancement

Another would be to price it as a disadvatage, so it's still treated as an 80pt. advantage but only as +80% enhancement, placing it in the realm of other "incapacitations" which range from +50%-+200%

Lastly is to simply leave it at +800%, and have wether it is "always on" or not as a special effect. it may be debilitating to opponent, but still useful to allies....just having to wait for it to "wear off" being an inconvenience (In fact I think there is a published "minimum duration" limitation somewhere, perhaps in Psionics

Any thoughts are appreciated

I'd price it one of two ways. If it can be turned on and off, either by the afflicter's volition or the target's, I'd use the +800%. If it can't, I'd use the 400%.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

I was curious as to how you would price this. Normally as an advantage; It would cost +10% for every point the advantage is worth; ergo Insubstantiality would be +800%

But this assumes your granting the power to another individual, that they can turn it on and off at will.

No. It doesn't. Turning others insubstantial can be used to benefit them even though you control how long they stay insubstantial.

[Refplace]

Per Basic p. 36
Advantages that can be switched on
and off (such as Insubstantiality) are
automatically “on” for one minute per
point by which the victim fails his HT
roll, and are not under the subject’s
control.

[Bathawk]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Per Basic p. 36
Advantages that can be switched on
and off (such as Insubstantiality) are
automatically “on” for one minute per
point by which the victim fails his HT
roll, and are not under the subject’s
control.

Ah Mystery solved then....but then brings up the obvious question, what if I WANT them to have control over the power?

[Kallatari]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

Ah Mystery solved then....but then brings up the obvious question, what if I WANT them to have control over the power?

That's elaborated upon in GURPS Powers. Basically, it's the exact same cost, but they have to succeed their HT roll to receive the power.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

Ah Mystery solved then....but then brings up the obvious question, what if I WANT them to have control over the power?

Affects Others, +50%, add Ranged or Area Effect if you dont need to touch them but note you need that +50% per each subject. Exception made for those inside a forcefield.

Originally Posted by Kallatari

That's elaborated upon in GURPS Powers. Basically, it's the exact same cost, but they have to succeed their HT roll to receive the power.

Cite please? If your talking Beneficial Afflictions Powers, p .40 that just affects the Resistance roll. No mention of granting control to the subject. I think I saw something like that once but darned if I can find it again.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

Turning a villain ghostly for example, but where he can't turn it off is a different matter

One option is to treat it as an "always on" limitation. For insubstantiality that would be -50%, making insubstantiality cause 40pts. base an thus a +400% enhancement

That's a good route to go, but it would prevent the afflictor from turning them substantial again prematurely unless they bought the Cancellation enhancement for +10%.

Originally Posted by Refplace

If your talking Beneficial Afflictions Powers, p .40 that just affects the Resistance roll.
No mention of granting control to the subject.
I think I saw something like that once but darned if I can find it again.

Huh... I had always assumed BA gave target control but you're right there's nothing there about that...

I think you're right that someone ended up writing about it that way to give us that impression...

Maybe PK in 2009:

Originally Posted by PK

GURPS Powers went into this a bit with a section on "wishes", but I agree that it probably could've been more clear.

Kromm and I have discussed this already, so let me clarify:

If you want to buy Affliction (Warp) explicitly to give the subject the ability to consciously, controllably Warp for minutes equal to his margin of success (I say MoS since, presumably, this'd be a "benefliction"), you can.

You just have to make this explicit when you're building the ability, and once done, you can not use it as an exoteleport attack.

If you want that, you have to buy it separately. You can buy it as an AA if the GM allows.

(Note that you can't just take the "Advantage, Warp" enhancement twice and add Selectivity, because this is an issue of how the Affliction itself is set up.)

So it's your choice between
Affliction (Advantage, Warp, +1000%)
and
Affliction (Advantage, Warp, Under subject's control, +1000%).

He's referencing P119 "A few beings grant new abilities" I think?

He doesn't specify this is the HT-roll-inverted "Beneficial Afflictions" but I think that's a pretty good assumption? Conceptually it matches up.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Plane

Maybe PK in 2009:


He's referencing P119 "A few beings grant new abilities" I think?

He doesn't specify this is the HT-roll-inverted "Beneficial Afflictions" but I think that's a pretty good assumption? Conceptually it matches up.

Sounds about right to me. If its locked in that should be ok, but still its in House Rule territory far as I know.

[Anaraxes]

When you design an ability with Affliction, you (the player/GM) choose whether or not the target has control of the ability, or whether it just affects them. That decision can't be changed on the fly; the ability just works one way or the other.

So, the "weaponized" forms of Afflictions like Warp mean that you can "Teleport Other" to whatever unfortunate place you wanted to send them. The target doesn't choose their destination, winding up at the vacation resort instead of the center of the sun that the caster intended. But you could also build an ability that lets you grant someone the ability to use Warp at their own will. Both forms are possible.