01-08-2018, 04:37 PM | #1 | ||
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
I broke this off from the "list the issues" TFT thread (Fantasy Trip Glitches, Contradictions, Ambiguities).
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I think mounted figures with lances should be pretty awesome though. Quote:
Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-08-2018 at 08:18 PM. |
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01-08-2018, 08:09 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
A better treatment of pole arms would be to give them all a similarly strong (and quite good) impaling charge attack, and then to have the swinging/hacking attack scale with ST and extend up to quite high values. The reality is that a halberd or pole hammer is one of the few weapons on a medieval battlefield that will wreck your day even in heavy armor.
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01-09-2018, 09:17 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
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That doesn't surprise me. The figure you describe would attack first in a charge attack and would hit 91% of the time. He would do 2+4 damage, enough to seriously injure or kill normal opponents most of the time. More than half of the time, he'd knock an opponent wearing chainmail (or leather and small shield) down, which would prevent the opponent from retaliating. |
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01-09-2018, 11:56 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
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The best all-around seems to be the Glaive - a 2' seax (meat-cleaver with a thrusting point) on a 4' to 6' handle, often with a back spike and/or back-hook. It does most things a halberd does with a cheaper blade, and one which is also still useful as a utility tool... and is easier to make, as well. But, like the Halberd, a dedicated bec is better at opening the can, a dedicated axe is better at chopping bones to dust through chain and/or denting plate, and the dedicated bill hooks are better at pulling riders and cutting straps... Likewise, the Seax itself is a jack of all trades blade - a 2'-3' meat-cleaver with a thrusting point, and a 10 to 20 inch handle. Strong enough to make a useful hatchet, easily sharpened, massive enough to be hard to block or divert, and still wieldy enough to be used as a machete, too. And it can be used to stop-thrust as well as push thrust, in addition to chopping. Oh, and it's nimble enough to be used for preparing dinner... none of them as well as a dedicated blade for the task, but all of them better than the wrong blade. ( |
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01-10-2018, 06:45 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
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01-11-2018, 05:16 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Columbia, Maryland
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
My recollection from ye olde days as a spear/glaive man were that my advantages were reach, and the ability to get in a quick hit with a sneaky jab or chop now and again. The only time that I felt like I did a hit with "extra damage" was in line battles while standing behind the shield wall. Then you could get in a full overhand swing with plenty of power behind it.
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01-11-2018, 06:45 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
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But doubling the damage, while simple, might have been too much, with larger pole weapons. A simple fix might be to add 1 die for a charge attack (or set vs a charge) with anything the size of a spear or larger. |
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01-11-2018, 12:25 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
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Also, I find it amazing that your unarmoured Naginata wielder was your most long lived. He probably wouldn't even survive the first room in Death Test! |
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01-11-2018, 02:48 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
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With an adjDX of 13, the pole weapon user would hit someone taking the Defend option 44% of the time; with an adjDX of 14, he'll hit 55% of the time. To have an adjDX of 13, a starting fighter would have a ST of 11 - enough for a spear. He'd have a 44% chance of inflicting 9 points of damage. His opponent would likely have a shield (at least 1 point), reducing the average to 8 points. After the charge attack his opponent's shortsword would inflict an average of 6 points vs 4.5 (less 1 point for the shield). At first blush, spears seem a bit more powerful. But not too bad. But with only 2 points more ST, the fighter becomes quite potent - a 44% chance of inflicting a hit that averages 14 points of damage (halberd). A nearly even chance of badly wounding or killing almost any comparable enemy. Assume a ST 13, DX 13(10) character with chain and small shield (-4 hits). The average hit will knock him down and reduce his ST to 4. 1 or 2 additional hits in normal combat (virtually certain since the halberd user has a DX of 13 (84% chance of hitting) will finish him off. With only 4 points more ST, the fighter becomes stunningly potent - a 44% chance of inflicting a hit that averages 18 points of damage (pike ax). A nearly even chance of likely killing almost any comparable enemy. Assume a ST 15, DX 13(10) character with chain and small shield (-4 hits). The average hit will reduce him to ST 1 (unconscious). With an additional point of DX, the pole weapon user has a 55% chance of inflicting these hits. The ST 11 spear averages 3.5 points (1h) and 4.5 points (2h); the ST 11 shortsword averages 6 points (1h). The 2h spear (in a charge) will do 3 points (50%) more damage than a shortsword. (And the shortsword allows for a shield). The ST 13 halberd (2h) averages 7 points; the Bastard Sword averages 8 (1h) and 8.5 (2h). In a charge, the Halberd does 14 points, 5.5 points (65%) more damage than the 2h bastard sword. It would take the bastard sword 3-4 subsequent normal rounds for the bastard sword to make up the difference in average damage, assuming both weapons hit every round. The ST 15 pike ax averages 9 points; the ST 15 battle ax averages 10.5 points. In a charge, the pike ax averages 18 points, 7.5 (67%) more than the battle ax. It would take 5 subsequent normal rounds for the battle ax to make up the difference in average damage, assuming both weapons hit every round. If you keep the double damage mechanic, I submit that the halberd and the pike ax need to be reduced in damage by at least 1 point and 2 points respectively. Last edited by tbeard1999; 01-11-2018 at 02:53 PM. |
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01-11-2018, 02:58 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Fantasy Trip Pole Weapons and Charges
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I think the naginata is too powerful. It does 2 points more damage than a spear and can wielded at 1 ST less. 1+1 damage would be more appropriate in my opinion. |
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