09-01-2016, 08:25 AM | #141 |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
The highest seems to be about 11 for the fastest firing model of the N-37, and 6 for the base models on the MiG-9 through (early models of) the MiG-19. Interestingly, their biggest problem seemed to be not recoil, but a tendency to knock out the engine of the MiG-9 with their muzzle gases. Then the British sold them Rolls Royce engines, on the condition they not copy them or use them on military aircraft, so after they copied them and used them on military aircraft reliability wasn't as big a problem.
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09-01-2016, 12:09 PM | #142 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
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09-01-2016, 12:11 PM | #143 | |
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oklahoma City
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
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09-01-2016, 12:14 PM | #144 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
There should probably be some sort of thing where if you fail by X your weapon becomes Unready, also, or if not that, devolves to Suppression Fire until you take a Ready maneuver. That's what I see on some of the videos. The skilled shooters (including that tiny 13yo girl!) just stop shooting when they get off target. The aforementioned young lady has enough trigger control to fire single and double-taps while the selector is on full-auto, too, so with discipline, you fire until you're off, then STOP. That's not really how GURPS works, and I'd have to noodle on if it could be made to work in a playable fashion.
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09-01-2016, 12:41 PM | #145 | ||||||
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
I tried to respond to this three times last night, but I was on dodgy municipal wifi downtown. :(
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I'd also note that this thesis isn't necessarily correct. Notably soldiers don't enjoy the benefits of fully automatic fire with 5.56mm rifles either; most (all?) standard issue infantry rifles in that cartridge don't even have an automatic setting anymore, and US line infantry, at least, are trained to make single aimed shots and rely on the LMG for suppression. The switch to lighter cartridges also had the effect of increasing the amount of ammunition an infantryman could carry, as well as supposedly being more effective against Soviet body armor. Quote:
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Maybe on a failure by (6-Rcl) or more you cannot make any sighted shots until you take a ready maneuver (for any shots at RoF 4+)? Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-01-2016 at 01:07 PM. |
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09-01-2016, 02:05 PM | #146 | ||||||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
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"AFAIK, in reality main purpose of automatic/burst fire is not hitting the target multiple times, but rather aid for hitting it at least once." "Historically full-power rifle cartridges, like 7.62x51, where replaced by intermediate cartridges, like 5.56x45, due to many factors. Among them was the controllability issue, as soldiers couldn't enjoy full benefits of rapid fire using full-power cartidges - shots scattered and spreaded, making it harder to hit the target with burst of full-auto. Just to name a GURPS example, let's take M16 and FN FAL. Let's assume both models have RoF 9, which converts to +2 Rapid Fire bonus. M16 has Rcl 2, while FN FAL has Rcl 3. That is, rapid fire will provide equal bonus with both rifles. Only chance to hit multiple times is affected by Rcl." So, the problem is that in reality, purportedly, shooting the full-power automatic rifle on automatic didn't work, which is inferred to mean it didn't result in targets being hit, and this was one of the reasons for the shift to intermediate rounds. In GURPS, the difference between those rounds has no effect on the usefulness of full auto for hitting targets. That is the OP's issue as I understand it, and basically the position I've been arguing. Quote:
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09-01-2016, 02:05 PM | #147 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
I was thinking of the video with the young girl, and a few others I posted, where they make the (sensible) decision to stop shooting when the recoil goes out of whack and pushes the barrel farther away from target than they'd like. That, in GURPS terms, is an Unready. Fixed weapons like aircraft machineguns would not have this issue, nor would coax guns. But most weapons, even pintle-mounted ones or those on a bipod, would.
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09-01-2016, 02:19 PM | #148 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Seattle, WA
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
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09-01-2016, 02:23 PM | #149 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
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If the shooter is able to fire or aim on their next turn, then it just means that they fired fewer shots than they might have, and (assuming they did it right) that those shots would have been wasted if they had been fired. While unreadying in relation to runaway guns may make sense, this brings to mind some remarks I recall seeing in the past about real failed attacks often being aborted because the attacker recognized they wouldn't work, rather than actually taking the swing, jab or shot and missing. GURPS ranged attacks at least don't model that, of course.
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09-01-2016, 02:44 PM | #150 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Rapid Fire bonus and Rcl
The second, that you must take a moment to steady the weapon is absolutely true, I think. The "can't fire" is more legit, and instead of Unready, I'd noted earlier that a switch-over to Suppression Fire would also be appropriate.
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