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Old 05-18-2012, 08:54 PM   #11
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

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Originally Posted by mirioki View Post
That they have an instinctive reaction to danger but it's not combat reflexes?
You seem to want it to be game mechanically identical to Combat Reflexes. Is the problem the name?
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Not even the sourcebook thinks deer should have combat reflexes.
The Basic Set's animals aren't very complete in general.
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My problem is, it's a bit silly to have an animal stand there stunned for god knows how long due to having a measly 4 IQ.
That only happens if they fail the Per roll to detect whatever is attacking them in the first place. I'm not sure that a few seconds of confusion or freezing isn't unrealistic.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

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Originally Posted by mirioki View Post
I can't give every dumb animal out there combat reflexes simply because they have an innate instinct to react to danger.
Why can't you?
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

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Originally Posted by mirioki View Post
That they have an instinctive reaction to danger but it's not combat reflexes?
So you're saying that you wouldn't envision deer as having extraordinary reactions and rarely being surprised for more than a moment?

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Originally Posted by mirioki View Post
Not even the sourcebook thinks deer should have combat reflexes.
The animals in Basic Set are very incomplete. Horses, for example, would probably benefit from using Lifting ST in place of some of their ST.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

I would not give every animal combat reflexes but it is not just for the predators. Some predators like snakes I would not give it to.
Some prey animals like pretty much everyone in the deer family (not scientific classification but including gazzelle, antelope, even moose) however would get it. Basically are they used to being ambushed? are they known for being skittish? then yes.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

Attribute Substitution/Extra Option: Per-based instead of IQ-based rolls for surprise.
Prerequisite: Racial IQ<6.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

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Originally Posted by lexington View Post
So you're saying that you wouldn't envision deer as having extraordinary reactions and rarely being surprised for more than a moment?
Wouldn't that be a high Basic Speed and PER? after all, poachers with floodlights are taking advantage of a deers lack of Combat Reflexes when they go for the same reaction unlucky drivers see when they get a "Deer in the Headlights".
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

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Why can't you?
Because most non-predators freeze when they are not in a herd and taken by surprise.

PER based IQ rolls always made more sense to me anyways - the survivalist with IQ 10 PER 12 shouldn't be less equipped to deal with surprise than the hacker with IQ 12. Even worse: the Absent Minded genius troupe with IQ 15 that bought PER down to 10.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:50 AM   #18
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

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Originally Posted by Danukian View Post
Because most non-predators freeze when they are not in a herd and taken by surprise.

PER based IQ rolls always made more sense to me anyways - the survivalist with IQ 10 PER 12 shouldn't be less equipped to deal with surprise than the hacker with IQ 12. Even worse: the Absent Minded genius troupe with IQ 15 that bought PER down to 10.
But on the other hand, I'm not comfortable with making IQ a 'dump stat' for warriors. After all, IQ is not just 'deep contemplation', it is also stuff like wits, ability to quickly process information, socially influence people, mentally control your face and bearing while you're filled with emotions inside etc. IQ is not just the ability to study academic skills.

I offered the Attribute Substitution because some people were looking for a way to change things.
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Old 05-19-2012, 05:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
But on the other hand, I'm not comfortable with making IQ a 'dump stat' for warriors. After all, IQ is not just 'deep contemplation', it is also stuff like wits, ability to quickly process information, socially influence people, mentally control your face and bearing while you're filled with emotions inside etc. IQ is not just the ability to study academic skills.

I offered the Attribute Substitution because some people were looking for a way to change things.
I agree that IQ shouldn't be a dump stat for warriors, I've seen a few good house rules that help emphasize that, but even RAW skills like Armory, Tactics and Connoisseur can be used to highlight the warriors need for a little mental might.
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:22 AM   #20
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Default Re: Surprise Rules for Animals

However about basing it on the higher of IQ/Per if both are <=10, the lower of the two if both are >=10, or the average if they are either side of 10?

Too long-winded to remember?
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