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Old 02-04-2019, 02:24 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default Health Rolls

The problem with using ST for both hit points and health is that giants don't just need a lot of poison to kill them, they're just immune. Also "hardly" Halflings instantly fold under environmental pressures.

Rather than adding a fourth stat (like that other RPG), we can split the two functions of ST by adjusting heath difficulty by the target size.

Small humanoids (Halfling and Goblin) roll one less die against ST for "health" rolls. I.e. if a human would need to roll 4/ST or take 2d poison damage then a Halfling would need to roll 3/ST or take 2d poison damage. To balance that ST is more efficient for them have these tiny folk pay XP to advance ST as if their attribute total was two higher than it actually is.

On the other end of the scale multihex critters add one die per hex over one to their health rolls and subtract three from attribute totals to advance ST. I.e. centaurs would roll 5/ST or take 2d poison damage and advance ST as if their attribute total was three lower. Giants roll 6/ST or take 2d poison damage and advance ST as if their attribute total was six less and so on.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Health Rolls

I think that's a good approach. The bell curves give average stronger creatures an advantage but maybe that's a good thing.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Health Rolls

Note that you pay for what you use.

Each point of ST is more useful for tiny critters (because of the health offset) so they pay more for each point.

I've adjusted my house rules to also include large single-hex humanoids so we get the high ST gargoyles and Reptile Women from the sources:

http://www.hcobb.com/tft/house_rules.html#Creatures

Yes, this makes it easier for Reptile Men to pile on the ST, but it makes it more important for them to do so.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: Health Rolls

Seems to me the GURPS approach is still the mathematically accurate one. Adding / subtracting 1 die for size categories is a step in the right direction, but doesn't accurately address the problem.

ST 30 giants are still going to make pretty much all of those 6-die ST rolls. Low ST halflings and pixies are still going to miss health rolls because they are small not because they're unhealthy.

I'd also note that it's mostly the natural poisons that list ST saving rolls. (e.g. Chemical alchemical, and naturalist or amateur weapon poisons just do damage with no ST roll involved.)

Maybe it's ok that those potions which are resisted by ST rarely effect large victims.

But it is nice to have an actual health stat for some things. It was one of the first things I started to house rule back about 1983, when adapting some travel endurance rules from Traveller and realizing ST was often just about size and didn't really imply health, physical conditioning or endurance.
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Old 02-06-2019, 10:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Health Rolls

Note that I added a die for Giants in order to wedge Gargoyles in there.

Ergo the ST 40 giant needs to make a 7/ST roll which he will fail 41% of the time and thus take 2d damage (which he shrugs off).

The ST 12 Halfling has a 3/ST roll which he makes 74% of the time so is less likely to take the poison damage. (He won't shrug off 2d poison damage so easily however.)

I'm thinking of reducing Goblin Max ST down to Halfling level of 12, but that leaves me with one odd race...

ITL66 Small one-hex figures (goblins, hobgoblins, halflings, etc.):
ITL78 Hobgoblins These are big, stupid goblins.
ITL79 Goblins and Hobgoblins can interbreed; the offspring are loved by neither race. They usually have manlike strength and Goblin intelligence, and are solitary and furtive.

So Hobgoblins are both Goblin size and bigger than Goblins.

I guess they get the one die small figure health bonus and a higher max ST than Goblins, say 15. That would make them the healthiest possible playable race. I suppose a max IQ of 11 or so would balance this.
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Last edited by hcobb; 02-06-2019 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:48 AM   #6
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Health Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Note that I added a die for Giants in order to wedge Gargoyles in there.
I was responding to the earlier post, where you said 6 dice based on number of hexes.

Seems to me you still end up having to consider every creature. (1-hex bears have high ST, for example.) I'd find it both a lot easier to get right, and a lot less complex to have a Health stat than to have a different number of dice to roll vs. ST for each race/species.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Ergo the ST 40 giant needs to make a 7/ST roll which he will fail 41% of the time and thus take 2d damage (which he shrugs off).
* Check your math - I think you meant a ST 25 giant. A ST 40 figure fails a 7-die roll almost never, it seems to me.

* Giants range in ST from 24 to 40 (or 50, if you're looking at Melee). 24 is 50% to fail 7d. 25 is 40% to fail 7d. The problem which having a number of dice for giants, is whatever you pick, it's still very much going to come down to how strong/big/old each giant is, unless you use a ST-independent stat.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Health Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
* Check your math - I think you meant a ST 25 giant. A ST 40 figure fails a 7-die roll almost never, it seems to me.
Not only have I done the math, I've made a table:

http://www.hcobb.com/tft/TFT_Saving_...rcentages.html

As you can see a ST 100 demon still only has a 58.58% chance of making a seven die saving throw against ST. (Thankfully demons are immune to all known poisons, right?)

Changing the number of dice to be rolled has powerful effects in TFT.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:58 PM   #8
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Health Rolls

Ah, you're talking about using the suggested automatic failure thresholds, in which case everything with a score of 25+ fails at the same rate.

I thought you meant an actual comparison of 7d6 vs ST.

Seems a bit odd to roll 7 dice "vs. ST" for a creature with ST 25+, when 26+ will auto-fail so the result is just a flat 40% chance of failure.
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Old 02-06-2019, 04:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Health Rolls

A much simpler solution for things like poisons: remove the ST roll entirely, it just does damage, and higher ST is more resistant because they have more ST.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: Health Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
A much simpler solution for things like poisons: remove the ST roll entirely, it just does damage, and higher ST is more resistant because they have more ST.
Or just rule that any creature with 20+ natural ST is effectively immune to most poisons.
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