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Old 05-14-2019, 08:23 AM   #1
FireHorse
 
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Default Opening Doors, and Moving Last

Suppose that figures A and B are inside a room, arguing about this very subject. Unbeknownst to B, C (a good friend of A) is eavesdropping at the door, plotting B's assassination.

A and B both decide they've had enough of the other one's mouth, so they draw their weapons and initiate Combat. Regardless of which one wins the initiative roll, one of them gets up in the other's face, and the other remains still, and the Movement phase (for them) ends with B's back to the door…

LIKE SO

…but then (regardless of whether he won or lost the initiative roll) C's Movement comes last.

Now: Can C just open the door and charge up behind B, thus gaining the +4 for a rear attack in the imminent Action phase?

Or does opening the door count as an Action all by itself (even if C had the knob turned and ready, or somebody else threw it open for him), meaning that the door cannot be opened (Action) and passed through (Movement) in the same turn, because of the sequencing?

Last edited by FireHorse; 05-14-2019 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

Opening a door as an action does simplify when traps spring.
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Old 05-14-2019, 08:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

Yes, but in that case the Surprise is held by the Trap. In the sort of ambush I described above, the figure coming through the door (C) has the Surprise. According to ITL 105, having the element of Surprise is worth a whole free turn — I'm just not sure how that works with tossing a door open and going through it, particularly when the people in the room have already moved.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

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Originally Posted by FireHorse View Post
Yes, but in that case the Surprise is held by the Trap. In the sort of ambush I described above, the figure coming through the door (C) has the Surprise. According to ITL 105, having the element of Surprise is worth a whole free turn I'm just not sure how that works with tossing a door open and going through it, particularly when the people in the room have already moved.
I'd probably allow it, but give B the opportunity to change facing and reduce/remove C's bonus.
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Old 05-14-2019, 09:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

Unfortunately there are no rules for doors in combat. What it takes to open one is only the first of various situations that can come up. So far, it's all left up to the GM.

Personally, I would have it depend on whether the door is in a state to be immediately opened or if the handle needs to be turned, and what state of both readiness and alertness C is in. If C is a PC, I would ask him to describe his preparations and how he plans to act based on what he hears, and not show him the map till he opens the door.

In any case, I'd roll 3/IQ (and maybe 3/DX) for C and see how well C manages to pull things off.

If the door can just be shouldered open, and C hears enough and figures out this is the moment to burst in, and has his weapons out and is an experienced person at doing such things, I'd let him just move through the door (maybe charge +1 MA) and be able to attack. I would hide the part of the map behind the door he's opening, since he won't know whether ally D is in the blind spot if he's rushing to kill B.

But if the door had a handle that takes some doing to open, I'd want to know how he's going to try to do that while still holding a weapon ready, and unless the player has a very plausible answer, probably require 3/DX or more to not take a turn opening the door and/or re-readying the weapon.

Etc.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:26 AM   #6
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

My standard table ruling is that opening a door is an action.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

Surprise only counts if the eavesdropper starts the fight and bursts in. If the fight already started he has no surprise advantage timewise, since he is actually waiting for the others to start the whole thing.

He could have a code word set up with his friend, so when the friend inside says that, they can both act coordinated and probably get a surprise action. The opening of the door might be enough of a distraction to give the insider a first surprise action too.

Opening a door or running upstairs or swinging down a chandelier rope from the top floor is all movement. Sometimes it requires a save, other times a talent, but almost always it is just a straight MA cost. Jump is one such example. If the movement is more of a complicated action, like turning a key and then put your mailed glove on before you rush through a door, it could require both a save and whole action. Or multiple actions like repairing the jammed wagon wheel needed for the party's escape while the rest of the crew holds off the bad guys.

And kicking in a door could even be considered an attack...

GM fiat is the thing, but try to be consistent. And MA costs are easy to calculate for broken ground, jumps, small feats of climbing or balancing challenges. If it is a fight, focus on the fighting actions with small quick MA penalties. If it is an environmental challenge, make it more complicated with talents and saves in multiple steps.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:06 AM   #8
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

You're all missing a crucial fact here: you cannot simply declare you're waiting to see what everyone else does. The entire point of the initiative system is that someone is going to be forced to move first. If fighter C wants to join in the combat, they have to roll initiative like anyone else. If they happen to roll better than B, then sure, they can move into their rear hex.If they roll poorly, they can choose to not move at all, but that means they could end up sitting out the entire fight waiting for "just the right moment."

Bursting though doors, guns blazing, is such an action trope that as long as the situation doesn't preclude it - the door is magically locked, etc. - I'd allow the "action" to be just a small penalty to movement. Even if a different GM ruled otherwise, two against one is deadly odds in TFT. No matter how fighter B pivots, A or C will be able to get into their rear hex and attack. The difference between "screwed on Turn 1" and "screwed on Turn 2" is mostly academic.
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Old 05-26-2019, 06:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColBosch View Post
You're all missing a crucial fact here: you cannot simply declare you're waiting to see what everyone else does.
In the situation described by firehose, I'd say that due to the tactical factors, C has initiative over A and B, and C is choosing to move last.

Quote:
Bursting though doors, guns blazing, is such an action trope that as long as the situation doesn't preclude it - the door is magically locked, etc. - I'd allow the "action" to be just a small penalty to movement.
I agree.
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Old 05-26-2019, 06:57 AM   #10
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Default Re: Opening Doors, and Moving Last

As a side-note I'm curious how people might handle initative with more than 2 sides. We did an algorithm like this:

1. Start of turn, all sides determine their initiative value by dice roll (+ tactics, etc) -- nothing new there
2. From highest to lowest:
- do you want to move now?
3. Eventually someone chooses to move or the lowest initiative is forced to move.
4. THen immediately go back to step 2 and repeat.

This system means that the high initiative can step in immediately after any side has moved. We always valued tactics and strategist talents and liked it this way.
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