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Old 12-18-2016, 12:27 PM   #1
Candycanedragon
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Default Skill to hide a box in a room { Was: Kind of a dumb question }

Hey all

The other day during a play session an interesting conundrum presented itself to me. The goal of the PCs was simple; to hide a small jewel encrusted box in their room at an inn. But then the whole thing was thrown for a loop with one player's simple question, "What skill do I roll to succeed?". I was leaned towards the camouflage skill. But what about the holdout and smuggling? Both of these skills specify their use to conceal an object on a person or in a vehicle. I guess my question is what skill would you all choose? and what skill would govern searching a room? As the search skill is also specified to a person or vehicle.

Looking forward to the discussion/tips!
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: Kind of a dumb question.

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Originally Posted by Candycanedragon View Post
Hey all

The other day during a play session an interesting conundrum presented itself to me. The goal of the PCs was simple; to hide a small jewel encrusted box in their room at an inn. But then the whole thing was thrown for a loop with one player's simple question, "What skill do I roll to succeed?". I was leaned towards the camouflage skill. But what about the holdout and smuggling? Both of these skills specify their use to conceal an object on a person or in a vehicle. I guess my question is what skill would you all choose? and what skill would govern searching a room? As the search skill is also specified to a person or vehicle.

Looking forward to the discussion/tips!
Camouflage is for hiding things outdoors, and misdirecting attention. Holdout is for hiding things on one's person. I'd go with Smuggling, for that one.
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Old 12-18-2016, 12:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Kind of a dumb question.

While I would also go with Smuggling, I could see Holdout-2 being used. GURPS has so many skills that there is bound to be some overlap, and more than one skill being useful in a given situation should be the rule, not the exception.

And it's not a dumb question.
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Old 12-18-2016, 01:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Kind of a dumb question.

Yeah what skill is most appropriate often comes up, hardly a dumb question.
GURPS is based on realism and flexibility so while some systems wont let you even try something without the right skill or ability GURPS usually does. Its just easier with the right training.
Smuggling seems the best fit and is backed up by reading the Search skill as well as the Smuggling skill itself.
Under Smuggling "This is the ability to conceal items in baggage and vehicles. You can also use it to hide an object in a room or a building."

I would also allow Camouflage at IQ-5 which is the IQ default for Smuggling.
The purpose is different but I can see where it could help so would allow floating to or complimentary roll for this.
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Old 12-18-2016, 10:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Kind of a dumb question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candycanedragon View Post
…what skill would govern searching a room?
This Kromm post is probably exactly what you're looking for.

Of lesser relevance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B227
Note that for the purposes of Traps skill, detection devices are “traps.” Thus, this skill covers everything from covered pits to elaborate electronic security systems!
Kromm explicitly states that Traps skill can be used to find secret doors in this thread.

And welcome to the forums, Candycanedragon; you will find it a wonderful resource. Some advice: make your thread topics practical and informative. GURPS on!

Last edited by Captain Joy; 12-18-2016 at 10:51 PM. Reason: added first Kromm post link and welcome and advice
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Old 12-18-2016, 11:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Kind of a dumb question.

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Originally Posted by Captain Joy View Post
This Kromm post is probably exactly what you're looking for.
And yet none of that covers looking through the cupboards, noticing the notable items in piles of miscellany, or finding things concealed in the furniture.

Considering that Search covers looking for items hidden in a vehicle, I can't see any justification for not being able to use it on a room. A vehicle can contain rooms!

The point that a room has many possible 'interesting features' that might require a variety of skills to fully explore is valid, but the question of 'what do I roll to hide an item and what do I roll to find something that was hidden?' is quite valid too.
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Old 12-19-2016, 03:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Kind of a dumb question.

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Considering that Search covers looking for items hidden in a vehicle, I can't see any justification for not being able to use it on a room. A vehicle can contain rooms!
If you think about it, most vehicles are just mobile rooms. I can't think of any good reasons to not allow it for finding things in somebody's room.
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Old 12-19-2016, 05:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: Skill to hide a box in a room { Was: Kind of a dumb question }

The Krommpost has some useful examples of how skills can allow you to discover things about a room that aren't simply hidden objects. Search won't tell you about odd woodwork, or wiring problems, or traces of blood, or let you follow tracks or grasp their significance. The Search skill finds hidden things, and none of those things are deliberately hidden, but merely inobvious to most observers. Search doesn't help the problem of lacking the knowledge to understand what you see. (Holmes: "You see, but you do not observe. The distinction is clear.")

And of course, GURPS skills overlap. There's usually more than one way to accomplish a goal, which is all to the good when the plot of an adventure depends on characters finding something. Different skills also discover different overlapping subsets of all the things there might be to learn about a room. They also affect how you'd describe the character making the discovery.

(If the question is just whether the party randomly discovers an extra bit of choice loot after a kill, then who cares? Miss the roll and it's as if that item were never written down on the loot list in the first place; no one but the GM will ever know. Maybe even just go with Perception in that case and choose a suitable penalty. Subtle interactions of skills don't really fit hack-and-slash dungeon crawls.)
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Old 12-19-2016, 06:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Skill to hide a box in a room { Was: Kind of a dumb question }

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The Krommpost has some useful examples of how skills can allow you to discover things about a room that aren't simply hidden objects. Search won't tell you about odd woodwork, or wiring problems, or traces of blood, or let you follow tracks or grasp their significance. The Search skill finds hidden things, and none of those things are deliberately hidden, but merely inobvious to most observers. Search doesn't help the problem of lacking the knowledge to understand what you see. (Holmes: "You see, but you do not observe. The distinction is clear.")

And of course, GURPS skills overlap. There's usually more than one way to accomplish a goal, which is all to the good when the plot of an adventure depends on characters finding something. Different skills also discover different overlapping subsets of all the things there might be to learn about a room. They also affect how you'd describe the character making the discovery.
Well, Search does work on items not deliberately concealed (it specifies that in the case that they are deliberately concealed it is opposed by the hiding skill). And some things not suitable to detect with Search are very deliberately hidden (Traps, in particular).
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Old 12-19-2016, 07:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Kind of a dumb question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereidalbel View Post
If you think about it, most vehicles are just mobile rooms. I can't think of any good reasons to not allow it for finding things in somebody's room.
Would you say that you are in disagreement with Kromm; or do you think I'm misinterpreting what Kromm has said on the matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm
[A realistic detective] would have Search, but for patting down suspects, not for poking in cupboards. They're not really closely related.

Last edited by Captain Joy; 12-19-2016 at 08:35 AM.
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