Full Conversion cyborgs in Transhuman Space

[Keiko]

Another poster asked about them and it made me curious. Are they mentioned in the source material at all, possible at the given tech level? Too "skiffy" for the hard science mood?

[Anthony]

They generally fall under 'why' rather than 'impossible'.

[sir_pudding]

Like "Brain in a box" arrangements? I am pretty sure there's something like that in Toxic Memes.

There isn't much difference between that and a Ghost running a Cyberdoll or other shell though except for the life support.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Like "Brain in a box" arrangements?

That's it. Robocop would be another example.

There isn't much difference between that and a Ghost running a Cyberdoll or other shell though except for the life support.

That's largely what I thought too but there might be a few running around, the product of people that wanted an upgrade but didn't trust or believe in ghost technology or perhaps borging predated that tech and they just haven't made the leap for various reasons. If it held similar benefits to ghosting that's a radical "upgrade" I'd even be tempted by.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Keiko

There isn't much difference between that and a Ghost running a Cyberdoll or other shell though except for the life support.

An organic brain pilot makes a shell much more vulnerable to violent motion, and "life support" covers a lot of vulnerabilities and performance compromises. That said, there's still likely to be enough people making the personal choice to cling to their grey matter while letting the rest go that most any civilian application marketed to sole-executionist Ghosts will have a brain jar or head jar version in existence, if not necessarily available off the rack.

[combatmedic]

There's also the 'identity' question.

If a person or an organization believes that a ghost is a construct based on copied information and not a transference of the human psyche, then keeping the original brain alive may be considered very important.

At some point the brain and whatever other organs were preserved will break down and die, even with really good biotech. Even cyborgs don't live forever.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

An organic brain pilot makes a shell much more vulnerable to violent motion, and "life support" covers a lot of vulnerabilities and performance compromises. That said, there's still likely to be enough people making the personal choice to cling to their grey matter while letting the rest go that most any civilian application marketed to sole-executionist Ghosts will have a brain jar or head jar version in existence, if not necessarily available off the rack.

Wires were crossed somewhere. I didn't post what you quoted. It was Sir Pudding.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Keiko

That's largely what I thought too but there might be a few running around, the product of people that wanted an upgrade but didn't trust or believe in ghost technology or perhaps borging predated that tech and they just haven't made the leap for various reasons. If it held similar benefits to ghosting that's a radical "upgrade" I'd even be tempted by.

We're actually dealing with believers in such a memeplex (sort of): they think that before Ghosting can Actually Move The Person Instead Of Copying, there's a need to live for a while in a cybershell (minus brain/head) that carries around a C7 computer and somehow gradually takes on the user's traits. In practice it's a very poor substitute for Shadowing preceding normal Ghosting.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Owen Smith

How can it have similar benefits to ghosting? The cyborg still has an organic brain, so can't be backed up (no Extra Life from backups), can't transfer digitally into another shell anywhere in the solar system etc. All it does is give you a total replacement cyber body (same could be done with brain in a bioshell).

Add to that 'Cannot be edited digitally in order to improve it' and 'cannot benefit from digital brainbugs/nanosymbiotesimulations' and 'must have actual non-digital surgery to get brain biomods'.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by combatmedic

At some point the brain and whatever other organs were preserved will break down and die, even with really good biotech. Even cyborgs don't live forever.

That point was up to the year 2088. That's when Cellular Rejuvenation (TS 167) comes along and allows indefinite repair and rennovation of your original meat.

To my mind it makes ghosting only interesting to self-destructu8ve infofetishists. Why die and create a computer program in your image when you can just be 20 again with no dying involved at all?