Making Bank with Earth to Stone

[GodBeastX]

Dungeon Fantasy 1:

• “Create” spells that materialize permanent matter tend
to destroy the economy. If delvers could create wealth, why
would they raid dungeons? Such spells last for a day.

I don't see why that should be limited to create spells. If magic is prevalent in the society, there are probably means of detecting if people are trying this trick too. And if they do want to pass of fake gold/etc, they can roll counterfeit versus some magical perception thingy to fool others into believing it is. Fools gold is a thing after all, why not have magical fools gold?

[Polydamas]

A handy list of spells which are most likely to create issues and how to fix them is the Unofficial GURPS Magic Errata http://personal.jargon-file.org/Unof...agicErrata.pdf

Of course, for some settings it is just fine to have most stone and metal made by journeyman mages ... that lets you have prisons with floor-to-ceiling iron bars, castles of bronze, ridiculously gigantic bridges to duel on, and other cool things. It means no mines-with-improbably-wide-straight-corridors-in-every-mountain, but not all fantasy is dungeon fantasy.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by PTTG

I'd say that the "inherent value" of the rare metals is vastly greater than common iron. It's possible, but (and here you do some math), it's easier and cheaper to pay for a pound of copper to be mined than it is to pay a wizard to make it. The rarer metals have even higher bonus energy costs.

It doesn't take many mages using Create Earth then Earth to Stone as their day job to be able to equal the entire annual output of late Medieval Europe. I think it was something like five, maybe.

IMO the hardest part of the job of producing iron (or copper, or whatever) using the RAW would be carving these huge blocks of metal into more useable sizes and shapes. I'm sure that would be doable though, and the resulting supply would be so cheap compared to historical supplies it's not funny. Even if mages were terribly rare, and the cost of summoned iron ran equal to mined and refined iron, the drop in demand for charcoal would change the rural landscape of Western Europe substantially.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Look at the type of spell. It’s not permanently changed to metal (that would be an instant spell), but lasts until dispelled. I had a “blacksmith” wizard who shaped wood into molds, put essential earth in the molds, and cast earth to metal making orichalcum armor and weapons... with a catch: they would turn into plain dirt if brought into no-mana zones or otherwise dispelled. It might be good for an orichalcum layer on wooden shields, but otherwise a bad idea unless you plan on being itinerant shysters hawking counterfeit metal.

As there's no method of dispelling mentioned, the only way is to put it in an no-mana zone, and even that only suspends the effect. The question that I find interesting is: "How far down a manufacturing or consumption chain does the stuff have to go, and how different need it become, before a no-mana zone doesn't cause it to revert into it's original form?"

[hal]

Originally Posted by Rupert

the drop in demand for charcoal would change the rural landscape of Western Europe substantially.

And that doesn't even include the spell HEAT. What is worse? Enchant a staff with heat, resist heat, and power (because staves have to be made of combustible materials and 2800 degrees will cause wood to burn) and forges can produce sufficient heat to melt steel. Oddly enough, the 2800 degree limit precludes melting titanium. ;)

Now, one can wonder what effects may come into play when one combined HEAT with a blast furnace construct using air spells?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As there's no method of dispelling mentioned, the only way is to put it in an no-mana zone, and even that only suspends the effect. The question that I find interesting is: "How far down a manufacturing or consumption chain does the stuff have to go, and how different need it become, before a no-mana zone doesn't cause it to revert into it's original form?"

That never happens. A no mana zone would always screw it up. So yeah if you've been eating nothing but magically created food and gointo a no-mana zone, you gonna die.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That never happens. A no mana zone would always screw it up. So yeah if you've been eating nothing but magically created food and gointo a no-mana zone, you gonna die.

It doesn't actually take all that much disappearing to render you dead. Which is why you shouldn't eat anything in faerieland.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Anthony

It doesn't actually take all that much disappearing to render you dead. Which is why you shouldn't eat anything in faerieland.

I'd actually cut living things some slack and give them a susceptibility to no mana zones.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As there's no method of dispelling mentioned, the only way is to put it in an no-mana zone, and even that only suspends the effect. The question that I find interesting is: "How far down a manufacturing or consumption chain does the stuff have to go, and how different need it become, before a no-mana zone doesn't cause it to revert into it's original form?"

Counterspell works. Despite the Duration type name of “permanent”, that’s not the “permanant world affect” that counterspell is talking about (its examples are Instantateous Duration spells). Even worse, since it’s a permanent spell effect, it will show up as magical in mage sight and the like, so wizards might know to try and counterspell it as a simple first strike.

As far as manufacturing, adulterating, and alloying: I’d say it’s viral unless it’s an organic process (Xorns, etc). Anything alloyed will be subject to being destroyed when the magical metal turns to dirt. If a wizard is selling you a block of pure iron, beware combining it with anything else.

[Rupert]

Note that Counterspell is specifically noted as being unable to affect permanent effects like Zombie. Zombie is given as an example of a permanent spell. Thus is can't affect Earth to Stone.

However, that sort of thing is mere quibbling compared to another problem - Magic uses 'permanent' a lot when it probably shouldn't. As a result, this ruling that y'all seem comfortable with - that no amount of dilution, etc., will stop the spell being reversible, means that breathing the results from Earth to Air is a bad, bad idea. Likewise Purify Earth, and just about anything from the Food college. That 'organic process' is a nice dodge, but the interaction of these 'permanent' objects and rusting and combustion is still a problem.

There are many other spells listed as permanent that really shouldn't be, too - Plane Shift, Final Rest, Share Vitality, Stop Bleeding, Neutralise Poison, Restoration, Regeneration, Resurrection, Disintegrate...