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Old 02-16-2019, 10:05 AM   #1
seycyrus
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Default Grappling: Free Hands to Break Free

Greetings, I have a few questions about grappling that I haven't been able to find an answer for.

If a combatant is grappled about the torso and wishes to break free, does he need a free hand (perhaps by dropping a weapon) to break free? It makes sense that larger weapons would make it much harder than a weapon designed to be used in close combat, say a quarter staff versus a knife.

The specific situation that I am faced with is that a player is grappled about the torso by a tentacled horror from the depths.

The horror's tentacles are quite long, and the beast will try to pull the player in for lunch. The player (a fighter type) has sword and shield and, I assume, will attempt to break free. I also anticipate him wanting to keep his sword with him so that he can use it against the beast when he is pulled within range.

1) How should this be done? Can he break free with a weapon in his hand, and if so at what penalty (if any).

2) What's the rationale behind one break free attempt every ten seconds? Is it considered that a "new opportunity or position" only really comes around every so often?

3) Being grappled gives you a -4 to dex, but then the rules talk about applying that rule to specific rolls pertaining to a grappled limb. Does that mean that being grappled about the torso does NOT institute a penalty?
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:47 AM   #2
evileeyore
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Default Re: Grappling: Free Hands to Break Free

Quote:
Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
If a combatant is grappled about the torso and wishes to break free, does he need a free hand (perhaps by dropping a weapon) to break free?
No. In fact Berak Free requires no hands free to perform.

Quote:
1) How should this be done? Can he break free with a weapon in his hand, and if so at what penalty (if any).
No penalty.

Quote:
2) What's the rationale behind one break free attempt every ten seconds? Is it considered that a "new opportunity or position" only really comes around every so often?
It's an abstraction born I suspect from how long most grapples in real life last and instead of a series of penalized rolls that get better, the rules writers opted for a single roll 'every [TIME UNIT]'.

Quote:
3) Being grappled gives you a -4 to dex, but then the rules talk about applying that rule to specific rolls pertaining to a grappled limb. Does that mean that being grappled about the torso does NOT institute a penalty?
No, it means you're -4 to pretty much everything. But it also means your foe isn't going for a Disarm, Arm Lock, Limb Wrench, or Neck Snap...
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:53 AM   #3
Mr_Sandman
 
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Default Re: Grappling: Free Hands to Break Free

Break free attempts are only limited to once every 10 rounds if the subject is pinned. If they are just grappled, they can attempt to break free every round.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:18 AM   #4
seycyrus
 
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Default Re: Grappling: Free Hands to Break Free

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
No. In fact Berak Free requires no hands free to perform.
Thanks for your replies. I'll use them in my gaming session.

As someone with a background in Gracie Jiu Jitsu and other MA, I am still puzzled by, "no hands free" needed.

Perhaps it is a conceptualization issue, but that wording seems to imply that I'm not using my hands when I break free from grappled torso. I can see twisting and turning a grappled limb to break free, but a grappled torso seems to be another matter.

Just sorta "shaking it off"?
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:31 AM   #5
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Grappling: Free Hands to Break Free

Quote:
Originally Posted by seycyrus View Post
Thanks for your replies. I'll use them in my gaming session.

As someone with a background in Gracie Jiu Jitsu and other MA, I am still puzzled by, "no hands free" needed.

Perhaps it is a conceptualization issue, but that wording seems to imply that I'm not using my hands when I break free from grappled torso. I can see twisting and turning a grappled limb to break free, but a grappled torso seems to be another matter.

Just sorta "shaking it off"?
"Free" hands tends to be *very* free. The kind of constrained movement you might do which uses your limbs even if they're not "free" is implied there.

For example: someone grapples you around your torso and both arms. You have no free hands, by definition. But you can drop, shrug, create space using your arms . . . even though they're not "free" from a technical perspective.

So the other way to look at it is that you can still do a break free maneuver even if somoene doesn't do what we used to call the Idiot's Bear Hug: grab the torso and leave the arms free.
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:05 AM   #6
Maz
 
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Default Re: Grappling: Free Hands to Break Free

Bear in mind, that what GURPS calls a grapple is not the same as what most people think of when talking about a grapple.

A grab in GURPS is simply "having a hold of the opponent". That's also why the penalties are not that harsh (-4 to DX checks), and not actually any penalties to dodge apart from not being able to retreat.

What most think of when they talk about real world grappling, is two people trying to get the other pinned... and one succeeding. Essentially that's what Olympic Wrestling is all about (as far as I understand it).
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Old 02-18-2019, 12:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Grappling: Free Hands to Break Free

In technical grappling to do a Break Free, if you were using the grappled location to break free I think you would suffer the DX penalties according to the control points on that location, which is probably why it's better to use other locations (like hands) which aren't grappled (unpenalized) to perform the technique.
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