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Old 02-01-2019, 01:43 PM   #11
dataweaver
 
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

...which is what I mentioned in the first post. The question is how to revive interest in the game, as its current state is a pretty sorry one.
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:48 PM   #12
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

I'm not going to say that there is never hope. The Fantasy Trip proves that very unlikely things can still happen. But, as other posters have pointed out, this subforum is where we would expect most of the discussion about IN to be taking place, and . . . it's very, very quiet. Post content that gets other people interested and talking, and you stand a better chance.

I like In Nomine - the rules are kinda wonky but the setting is a lot of fun. I would love to see it come back. But it won't happen until Phil and Steve see a way that we can make money doing it, because publishing games that won't make money is a quick way to not having ANYTHING to publish.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

Good place to toss around ideas.
I dont like the rules but I do like the setting.
With that in mind I have plans to propose a GURPS supplement that is sort of like Changing Times for Transhuman Space.
Basically a GURPS book that outlines the setting and gives rules to play it, with conversion notes so GURPS players can fairly easily use In Nomine material.
However I dont know if that would satisfy the fans and I have to get two books published before I can officially propose it with any hope of acceptance.
But I have done a lot of work on other projects with that future compatibility and option in mind.

Would a GURPS conversion replacing the Third Edition like that be interesting?
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
I'm not going to say that there is never hope. The Fantasy Trip proves that very unlikely things can still happen. But, as other posters have pointed out, this subforum is where we would expect most of the discussion about IN to be taking place, and . . . it's very, very quiet. Post content that gets other people interested and talking, and you stand a better chance.
Actually, it’s mainly been me that pointed that out. That’s also kind of why I started this thread: to get other people interested and talking. I suspect that there are a lot of people like you and me who like In Nomine and would love to see it come back; but most have basically given up on it because SJGames has stopped publishing anything for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
I like In Nomine - the rules are kinda wonky but the setting is a lot of fun.
What do you find wonky about the rules, and how would you change them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard View Post
I would love to see it come back. But it won't happen until Phil and Steve see a way that we can make money doing it, because publishing games that won't make money is a quick way to not having ANYTHING to publish.
Obviously. Which is why I’m trying to explore avenues to getting interest going again, so that it can make money. And in particular, I was suggesting a Kickstarter campaign because it strikes me as the least risk that SJGames could take short of the current “no risk, but no product either” state of affairs.

I'm trying to suggest ways forward. But if the response from SJGames is “we're not going to do anything until the fans show interest”, I fear that it will be a cold day in Hell before we see any more In Nomine material: not because there's no interest out there, but because it's hard to get excited about a dead game line. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Good place to toss around ideas.
I dont like the rules but I do like the setting.
With that in mind I have plans to propose a GURPS supplement that is sort of like Changing Times for Transhuman Space.
Basically a GURPS book that outlines the setting and gives rules to play it, with conversion notes so GURPS players can fairly easily use In Nomine material.
However I dont know if that would satisfy the fans and I have to get two books published before I can officially propose it with any hope of acceptance.
But I have done a lot of work on other projects with that future compatibility and option in mind.

Would a GURPS conversion replacing the Third Edition like that be interesting?
Not to me. Something that the 3e conversion illustrated is that GURPS does a lousy job with the In Nomine setting, largely because In Nomine's assumptions are largely incompatible with the way GURPS' point system is set up. The wildly varying point totals for the different Choirs and Bands (to the point that GIN basically instructed the GM to just give up on balancing them and give the players however many points they'd need for whichever templates they chose) and the added complexity of differing point costs for individual powers illustrate how poor of a fit it is. I don't see 4e doing much better.

There are some things that I'd want to change in a new edition; but turning it into a point-accounting nightmare is not one of them.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:04 AM   #16
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
Actually, it’s mainly been me that pointed that out. That’s also kind of why I started this thread: to get other people interested and talking. I suspect that there are a lot of people like you and me who like In Nomine and would love to see it come back; but most have basically given up on it because SJGames has stopped publishing anything for it.
Plenty of games that are not in active development have reasonably active fan communities. There was a noticeable flurry of interest when SJ recovered the rights to TFT (caused, as far as I can tell, by people stalking the IP, it started months before SJG said anything about it).
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

As a counter to dataweaver, I would like to point out that I didn't know the "native" In Nomine setting existed at first; I saw the book for GURPS In Nomine in a gaming store, along with GURPS IOU, and liked the settings so much that I picked up GURPS to learn how to play them. I GM'ed two campaigns of GIN which both lasted for several years, and very much enjoyed them. I did need to make some rules edits, but no more than I might with any other setting I used for that long.

(I tangentially note that I have still never played a campaign of IOU and would like to.)

GURPS 4e has an active userbase, and a core setting into which a GURPS-statted In Nomine world can be dropped. The Warehouse 23 Wish List has several categories into which potential 4e GIN material fits: a 16-pager description of the In Nomine corporeal world, its physics, and its associated planes would be an Infinite Worlds supplement, especially if it included some information as to how Infinity's travel modes mesh with it (probably "conveyors can't hit anywhere but the corporeal, but psychic jumpers can make the others"). For extra value I would add meta-plot to advance the IN Universe past the '90s, assuming a successful Rev Cycle and perhaps even making it an anchor timeline whose date was on par with Homeline/Centrum/Shikaku-Mon's. An IN - 4e conversion of the Choirs, Bands, Ethereals, and various permutations of humanity in the setting would be a Fantasy Folk supplement, much of which could basically be lifted from GIN and updated to 4e.

In Nomine is actually alluded to in 4e Basic; the Infinite Worlds writeup could offer the usual advice on interpreting the setting in the larger universe. For instance, people outside the IN world probably don't have Forces and Essence because that's just not how physics works in other worlds, but if the GM decides that they have Fates and Destinies that can be read with the right powers, that by itself would go a long way toward bolstering Heaven and Hell's claim to have a bead on Truth. The official line back home would be that other worlds just have their own angels and demons doing the job in different ways. The GM could decide whether the Cabal's Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel are connected with the entities of the same name in the IN universe or not. Etc.

This pair of books would (a) give every GURPS 4e GM a setting and characters which could be used in their IW games, even if they weren't devoted In Nomine fans; (b) give people who were newly interested in the setting an entire back catalog of books to collect, many of which came with 3e GURPS stats that translate easily to a 4e game; and (c) lay the groundwork for new IN publications, in the usual native format if desired, with the GURPS stats in 4e.

The setting has been sitting still and gaming has moved on. I think pdf-only supplements are fine, I think the line needs a GURPS 4e connection, and I think a Kickstarter for this pair of supplements to demonstrate that there are people willing to buy new stuff is a reasonable test of whether the line has any life still in it.

Alternatively... and I don't want anyone to think I'm advertising here, but it is a contribution to the context... I have a full-out writeup of an Archangel who hadn't been done yet, which is basically done stem to stern except for the GURPS mechanics conversions and the sample Servitors. I could do the GURPS stats in 4e; a lot of the conversions were best-guesses anyway. You would need maybe a couple of extra paragraphs saying "From the GURPS 3e conversion, make the following changes to update this Choir template to 4e." I could email the draft to someone for eyeballing as to whether a Kickstarter for the product would be a plausible effort.
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Old 02-02-2019, 10:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

Well, I've done some of the basic work on porting IN into the IU setting (http://moelane.com/gurps-4e-thumbnai...g-1-quantum-7/), and some of the conversion work needed to update GIN to the new edition. http://moelane.com/2017/10/04/in-nom...-in-nomine-4e/ There's more suggested Archangel conversions in the IN forums under my name, IIRC.
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Old 02-02-2019, 11:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

The Swedenborg-1 writeup looks pretty good, and I like Swedenborgs 2-5 as applications of the Bright/Dark High/Low-Contrast dials.

On the celestial conversion, I'll note that Non-Reciprocal Damage is canonical GURPS (Powers, p. 75) and should be listed as a +50% Advantage on Alternate Form, and I'd offer additional suggestions should you want them, perhaps in another thread.
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Old 02-02-2019, 02:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Can In Nomine be resurrected?

Well, beggars can't be choosers. If a 4e update for GIN is a viable way to demonstrate that there's still a market for In Nomine, then go for it. That said, I fear that the same “show that there's a market first” attitude would keep such a project from getting of the ground.
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