Opinions Wanted re _OGRE In Space_ Movement

[Macunaima]

Originally Posted by Mack_JB

One reviewer says the Old Guy stuff channels Firesign Theatre. Now that can't be bad!

Not a bad comparison.

It’s also full of wargaming in-jokes, like the time a wizard summons a cybertank into a fantasy battle. If you’ve ever had any contact with the old SPI game Swords & Sorcery, you’ll appreciate that.

As for Ogres in Space, I’d start with the Triplanetary game and try to construct your ogre using that system.

[TheAmishStig]

Originally Posted by Macunaima

Not a bad comparison.

It’s also full of wargaming in-jokes, like the time a wizard summons a cybertank into a fantasy battle. If you’ve ever had any contact with the old SPI game Swords & Sorcery, you’ll appreciate that.

As for Ogres in Space, I’d start with the Triplanetary game and try to construct your ogre using that system.

That was my curiosity...were we talking about putting Ogre combat into Triplanetary, or Triplanetary movement into Ogre?

The former might not be too hard, but means a lot of scratch-building to get the attack/defense/range values right.

With the latter, my big concern is what acceleration is going to do to the math carefully balanced around strike ranges...a GEV that has to spend up to 7 turns getting up to speed before it can start darting in and out of battle severely undercuts its usefulness.

Though I did have a huge "oooh shiny" moment at the idea of having a maximum velocity per unit type, applying gravity at the end of movement instead of next turn (which better fits Ogre's nature), and using that to be able to use a well-timed planetary slingshot to get into range of an enemy that thinks they're safely out of range.

[Macunaima]

Originally Posted by TheAmishStig

That was my curiosity...were we talking about putting Ogre combat into Triplanetary, or Triplanetary movement into Ogre?

The former might not be too hard, but means a lot of scratch-building to get the attack/defense/range values right.

With the latter, my big concern is what acceleration is going to do to the math carefully balanced around strike ranges...a GEV that has to spend up to 7 turns getting up to speed before it can start darting in and out of battle severely undercuts its usefulness.

Though I did have a huge "oooh shiny" moment at the idea of having a maximum velocity per unit type, applying gravity at the end of movement instead of next turn (which better fits Ogre's nature), and using that to be able to use a well-timed planetary slingshot to get into range of an enemy that thinks they're safely out of range.

I think the GEV analogue in such a game might be a small ship with a jump engine of some sort.

[dwalend]

Or maybe the ability to fire from any point in their move instead of just at the end...

...This variation might go well with I-move-you-shoot to simulate the predictable trajectories.

[43Supporter]

Again, taking random comments:

-- Movement: Um... let's just say "OGRE players will find the units *very* familiar". (Remember how I said earlier "the first combat starcraft were essentially reworked OGRE hulls, or starcraft with pre-FTL weapons installed"? I wasn't kidding. :) )

For ex., the "Fighter" small-craft's main stats look like this: Drive: 7; ATK: 2; DEF: 2. There Is A Reason For This -- OK, actually There Are More Than One Reason For This. :)

"Out-game" reason: This is the "GEV-equivalent" -- small, fast, dies the first time it gets hit by an enemy.

"In-game" reason: Someone took the main gun from a GEV, strapped it onto a spectacularly-over-engined airframe, gave it enough BPC to not be suicidally worthless, and sent it on its way.

The Drive is "7" rather than "4/3" since all movement occurs "at once", rather than "I-go-u-go"; it simplifies combat somewhat.

FTL Capability: All craft are intrinsically FTL-capable; it's a byproduct of the drive design. The problem arises when one is transiting from FTL to "normal space"; whatever vector one had on entry is what one has on exit, and it can't be altered on the turn of entry. So if the Fighter above enters "normal space" and finds an asteroid in its flight path, *SPLAT*. If it entered with a vector of 8 or more, it could end up SPLAT-ing on the turn after re-entry.

["SPLAT" here means: "Roll the following as an attack: [length of vector in hexes]:[DEF value of unit]." So the Fighter with a vector of 8, and DEF 2, is looking at a 4:1 attack roll. And now you know why I refer to it as "SPLAT". :) ]

By way of explanation, to quote A Completely Different Source....

"It'll take a few moments to get the coordinates from the navi-computer! [...] Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations, we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"

;)

Slingshotting planets, and other gravitic effects: Unfortunately, using vectors does force the distance of a hex to be rather small -- only about 2.4km, in fact. (This assumes 1 Drive = 1G "burn".) Given the Earth's diameter at the Equator is ~12,756 km, it should be apparent that life-bearing planets will be Inconveniently Large....

General Background: I have always been a fan of Stewart Cowley's "Terran Trade Authority" books, and have tried to model the background for _OIS_ accordingly. (And I mean the original books, not the stuff Morrigan Press produced....) If one can find copies of the books, one should have a relatively clear idea of The Direction I'm Going.

One important point: The Humans are *not* a single unified polity, save through the "Committees of Correspondence" between settlements; and the AIs *definitely* are not unified (which is a big part of why the AIs haven't yet steamrollered the Humans...).

Minis: Right now, I'm using the starcraft from Reviresco to represent various craft. I don't have a 3D printer of my own [yet], so I can't make my own minis out of anything except hand-cut cardboard....

[Misplaced Buckeye]

Originally Posted by offsides

OK, I'll bite. Link to find them? :P

Go to Amazon.com. The first book usually runs 99 cents and the others between 3 and 4 dollars.

[lokke]

If you're looking for a realistic vector based movement system that is easy to use, and uses a minimal ammount of extra components, head over to Ground Zero Games > Rules > Full Thrust - Fleet Book 1 (free PDF download).

It's meant for miniatures without hexes, but is easily adaptable.

Basically, you use one extra counter (with an arrow on it) per ship, and it spends most of it's time living under the ship stand. You only actually see the thing when you move the ship. Clean and elegant.

[43Supporter]

UPDATE: I am at Game Storm; I have OIS sessions Friday 5PM and Saturday 4PM. Now to see if anyone shows up.... :)