07-17-2018, 09:34 AM | #21 | ||
On Notice
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
Quote:
Quote:
For the Iotians, at TL6, to have any chance at duplicating Federation Technology the highest TL the Federation can be is TL(7+2)^. Remember that a TL that is 4 or higher then your own is impossible to understand much less duplicate. (B168) This limits the upper range of what Star Trek's TL can be. See GURPS Prime Directive on the GURPS wiki for a detailed reasoning as to why Star Trek at best is TL(6+3) to TL(7+2) under 3e GURPS TL (and that only works if you ignore "Piece of the Action" and Worlds of the Federation) and TL(7+2)^ (transtator TL6^; Medicine: TL7^) under 4e TL. Per Spock: "The transtator is the basis for every important piece of equipment that we have." So how much of TOS tech is TL(7+2)^ or TL6^ depends on what uses the transtator. Note per Memory Alpha duotronics appears to be the TOS equivalent of computer chips and was largely replaced by isolinear circuitry by the TNG era. But Duotronics didn't come into existence until the early part of the 23rd century. Superscience like Magic totally screws up the GURPS TL scale. Not to mention that GURPS Fantasy introduced the concept of Equivalent TL where magic (or superscience) makes the TL look higher then it actually is. For example, take Etheria where limited manned interplanetary exists. This is normally TL9 but the world is actual TL(5+1)^ (etheric spacecraft, TL5^) or 3 to 4 TLs below what would be "normal". D&D Starjammer has an even greater disconnect between Equivalent TL (3+6) and actual TL (3^ to 4^). Azoth-7 has what amounts to fast interstellar travel, normally a TL12, and they are TL4^! Cyrano also has space travel TL4^ while TL(5+4) elsewhere. Britannica-5's antimatter is not TL10 but TL5^ and there is cinematic aspects to Star Trek antimatter that implied that antimatter in TOS is superscience which would kick it off the GURPS TL scale. Futura is TL(5+1)^ despite having manned interplanetary possibly interstellar travel. It is a very Dieselpunk world: "Ayn Rand on crystal meth or Jack London on crack. It's Tim Burton's Speed Racer, it's Fritz Lang's Star Wars". Again nowhere near where the TL "should" be. Last edited by maximara; 07-17-2018 at 09:57 AM. |
||
07-17-2018, 09:36 AM | #22 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
|
07-17-2018, 09:49 AM | #23 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
We have no reason to think the Iotians really did that. And yes, "Worlds of the Federation" counts as "no reason". It's listed under "apocrypha" in the Memory Alpha listing for the Iotians for a reason. If we can't consider TNG when evaluating Star Trek, we certainly can't consider Worlds of the Federation, which is both unofficial and actually written during the run of TNG (complete with a foreword by "Lt. Commander Data"). In fact Ronald Moore immediately disavowed Worlds of the Federation and wrote a "Forget what that guy said about Klingons, THIS is how Klingons are on the show" memo.
|
07-17-2018, 10:03 AM | #24 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
Quote:
“In a Safe-Tech setting, restricted technologies are usually possible, but haven't been invented, or have been invented and rejected. Individual researchers (often of the “eccentric genius” or “mad scientist” gadgeteer type) and people working with alien technology may have produced examples of all of the above technologies, as well as various types of super-science. However, they are unique prototypes, costing at least 100 times normal and defying easy reproduction. Moreover, the lack of organized research in these areas means that breakthroughs tend to go out of control, harbor fatal flaws, or be stolen by criminals. This often results in the premature demise of the researchers and a further reinforcement of any bans.” That certainly sounds like Star Trek to me. |
|
07-17-2018, 10:13 AM | #25 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
In Ultra-Tech terms, Star Trek seems to be TL7 Retrotech with Emergent Superscience, though a case could also be made for TL10 Safe-Tech. Personally, I view the Divergent TL notation as a synonym for Retrotech, and Emergent Superscience is merely a reminder that TL suggestions for Superscience are just that: suggestions.
|
07-17-2018, 10:44 AM | #26 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
Quote:
A TL 7 setting with "emergent superscience" isn't retrotech either. It's just a setting that is TL 7, even though superscience technologies have been invented because they are making no difference to how the public at large lives. They still have the same income, drive the same cars, do the same jobs as, say, North America in the 1950s and 60s...but there are also secret government programs or mad scientists who have a weather control device, or a time machine, or know how to keep a brain alive and functioning in a jar...developments that have no impact whatsoever on how normal people live and work. It's also wrong to assume that divergent tech is the same thing as "not having invented an important technology so you work around it and do amazing things with steam engines or clockwork". That's one approach, but you can also get divergent technology from "Jean-Baptiste Lamarck invented a way to reshape lifeforms into living tools so now we shoot waspguns and ride around in turtle-mobiles". Last edited by David Johnston2; 07-17-2018 at 11:01 AM. |
|
07-17-2018, 10:53 AM | #27 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
I've never heard of World of the Federation. I'm going by what was actually shown on the television episodes of the original series. Admittedly C and I haven't rewatched all of them; we just saw "Amok Time" a couple of days ago (one of the very best episodes, to my mind even better than "City on the Edge of Forever"). So I could be overlooking something shown in a later episode. But I've been getting sustained exposure to what Roddenberry's original vision of future tech was like.
__________________
Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
07-17-2018, 10:56 AM | #28 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
I was just speculating to C the other night that all the civilizations that create AI carefully provide it with a lack of self-referential awareness that makes it unable to cope with logical paradoxes like the Spanish Barber, ensuring that it can be killed straightforwardly in an emergency.
__________________
Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
07-17-2018, 11:00 AM | #29 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
Quote:
__________________
Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
|
07-17-2018, 11:01 AM | #30 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Re: What TL is the original Star Trek?
Quote:
__________________
Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|