[Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting?

Randover · 01-31-2016, 02:01 PM

I fency GURPS: Magic for it's utility spells. I also like the idea that magic is exhausting procces and mages do tire by casting. i just don't like the numbers and I don't know how to fix them.

Even low power mage has 10FP. (One strog spell in emergency), but this mage is able to rest and during whole day generetes up to 100 FP. What I would like is to make him more like 60 FP in emergency, 100 FP per whole day (including those 60).
Buying ER or extra FP doesn't quite cut it. ER create mage that has few extra energy in emergency and another 100 per whole day. Making him more like 20 emergency FP and 200 out of combat use.

I know standart Magic system offers several solutions. Deley spell allowing mage to prepare spells in advance and wizards staff that cheaply gives him several more FP to use (8 even in modest settings).

Some time ago I thought that Threshold system from thaumatology can do the trick but it has unwelcomed complexity.

Basicly I am loking for system that would work like: "I start my day with 40 spell points, if I spend them up I could recover a little by resting, but if I work even more I end up unable to cast and I would be realy tired like after day or two without sleep....(Some stoped FP recovery?)"

I know that I could buy ER with longer recharge time 1 hour for example. But this way it is still quite expensive and mage doesn't get that much tired.

BTW. I am not a fan of Deley spell and I would ban it if I had another way to give mages more emergency power. The same goes for common powerstones and mage's staffs.

Anaraxes · 01-31-2016, 02:23 PM

Mages have a 60 FP Energy Reserve with Special Recharge and Regeneration (2 EP/hour). If you want physical tiring as well, add a Nuisance Effect to cost an FP for every 6 EP or so.

What complexity did you find with Threshold Magic? The bookkeeping?

weby · 01-31-2016, 03:23 PM

In my current campaign I used the standard magic system for the first half until it broke too totally at 1000 character points.

My modification was that all magic used energy reserves instead of FP. There were three types of energy reserves(ER): Active,Short term, Long term.

Each energy point from active ER that you use costs 1 FP. It recovers as normal ER (ie. 1/10 minutes regardless of rest and such). Note that the FP loss from this was normal FP loss and thus could be recovered fast with fit and such, but the ER recovered only at normal speed)
Magic short term energy reserve recovers 1 point every hour.
The long term energy has extremly slow recovery: 1 point/day.

There was also a limitation on how many short and long term ER they could buy, though the limit is not really needed all that much.

Doing something similar to the active/short term reserve could likely fill your need.

starslayer · 01-31-2016, 04:36 PM

Use threshold based magic.

Set the base threshold quite low, say 20 points.

Make the recovery rate quite fast, say 5 points/hour.

Rewrite the calamity table to be focused around exhausting (and in extreme cases killing) the caster.

Casters can choose how they grow- either increasing their resistance to the exhaustive effects of exertion (more FP, higher HT, etc), or puchasing increase threshold or threshold recovery.

This will mean that there are 4 ways a caster can grow in power:
1. More skill/spells.
2. Larger pool to draw from allowing for bigger 'on the spot' expenditures
3. Faster pool recovery allowing for more frequent casting
4. Increased personal vitality, allowing them to tolerate more calamity in their casting safely.

Brandy · 01-31-2016, 05:14 PM

I did it by creating a new attribute, Mana, which was calculated using the Basic Lift formula applied to IQ+Magery. A low-level mage with IQ 12 and Magery 1 has 34 points available; an arch-mage with IQ 15 and Magery III has 65. These function like FP for magic, and the recovery rate is the same even though the pool is bigger.

Then, I went through all the spells and refigured their costs. x4 for most spells, but this let me take some trivial spells and move their costs down, so that their relative cost was less while still being non-zero.

GodBeastX · 02-01-2016, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starslayer

Use threshold based magic.

Set the base threshold quite low, say 20 points.

Make the recovery rate quite fast, say 5 points/hour.

Rewrite the calamity table to be focused around exhausting (and in extreme cases killing) the caster.

Casters can choose how they grow- either increasing their resistance to the exhaustive effects of exertion (more FP, higher HT, etc), or puchasing increase threshold or threshold recovery.

This will mean that there are 4 ways a caster can grow in power:
1. More skill/spells.
2. Larger pool to draw from allowing for bigger 'on the spot' expenditures
3. Faster pool recovery allowing for more frequent casting
4. Increased personal vitality, allowing them to tolerate more calamity in their casting safely.

I was going to say Threshold magic as well, but I'll quote for truth and add in a link to the relevant book: GURPS Thaumatology P.76

mlangsdorf · 02-01-2016, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starslayer

Use threshold based magic.

Set the base threshold quite low, say 20 points.

Make the recovery rate quite fast, say 5 points/hour.

Rewrite the calamity table to be focused around exhausting (and in extreme cases killing) the caster.

I've written up a safer calamity table here:
http://noschoolgrognard.blogspot.com...threshold.html

It focuses on making it harder and more expensive for the mage to cast spells as their Calamity totals increase.

I've been setting the Threshold and Recovery Rate to 30 and 45 (in a lump at dawn), respectively, in my latest game. It gives the mage a fair bit of power in combat, but they do have to ration their daily spell-casting, and the fact that the Recovery Rate is more than the Threshold means that mages tend to risk going over.

Giving mages a Threshold of 60 and a Recovery Rate of 100 (full recovery at dawn) would work, but mages will be noticeably more powerful than they are under the standard system. 100 energy a day is a lot!

Dalin · 12-20-2017, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randover

I fency GURPS: Magic for it's utility spells. I also like the idea that magic is exhausting procces and mages do tire by casting. i just don't like the numbers and I don't know how to fix them.

Echoing what some others have said, I recommend taking another look at the Threshold system. My group loved it and it's easy to tinker with the variables to come up with the balance you're looking for. Rewrite the calamity table to reflect your campaign flavor. In my campaign, characters grew from 100 points (3e) to 400+ over a span of many years and we were very satisfied with the switch.

mr beer · 12-20-2017, 09:12 PM

I used a homebrew thing for 3e by which mages got 1 magic point for every 2 character points they spent on Magery or learning spells. Then they got those points back after a full night's rest.

So if you have Magery 3 [35] and 35 spells with 1 point in each [35], then you have 70 / 2 = 35 magic points available for spells every day.

I used also a mildly complex rule whereby you could temporarily sacrifice ST for additional magic points (25% of your daily total), then make a control roll against lower ST + Magery or suffer various nasty effects.

AlexanderHowl · 12-20-2017, 10:59 PM

I have allowed characters to sacrifice character points for 25 FP each, up to a maximum amount of character points per session equal to IQ plus Magery.

01-31-2016, 02:01 PM	#1
Randover Join Date: Feb 2008	[Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting? I fency GURPS: Magic for it's utility spells. I also like the idea that magic is exhausting procces and mages do tire by casting. i just don't like the numbers and I don't know how to fix them. Even low power mage has 10FP. (One strog spell in emergency), but this mage is able to rest and during whole day generetes up to 100 FP. What I would like is to make him more like 60 FP in emergency, 100 FP per whole day (including those 60). Buying ER or extra FP doesn't quite cut it. ER create mage that has few extra energy in emergency and another 100 per whole day. Making him more like 20 emergency FP and 200 out of combat use. I know standart Magic system offers several solutions. Deley spell allowing mage to prepare spells in advance and wizards staff that cheaply gives him several more FP to use (8 even in modest settings). Some time ago I thought that Threshold system from thaumatology can do the trick but it has unwelcomed complexity. Basicly I am loking for system that would work like: "I start my day with 40 spell points, if I spend them up I could recover a little by resting, but if I work even more I end up unable to cast and I would be realy tired like after day or two without sleep....(Some stoped FP recovery?)" I know that I could buy ER with longer recharge time 1 hour for example. But this way it is still quite expensive and mage doesn't get that much tired. BTW. I am not a fan of Deley spell and I would ban it if I had another way to give mages more emergency power. The same goes for common powerstones and mage's staffs. __________________ My topic Randover's Magical setting Enchanting proposals, mana levels, magery...and other stuff for Wizards based campaing. Motto: "Why not create cash by magic? Job as any other."

01-31-2016, 02:23 PM	#2
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: [Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting? Mages have a 60 FP Energy Reserve with Special Recharge and Regeneration (2 EP/hour). If you want physical tiring as well, add a Nuisance Effect to cost an FP for every 6 EP or so. What complexity did you find with Threshold Magic? The bookkeeping?

01-31-2016, 03:23 PM	#3
weby Join Date: Oct 2008	Re: [Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting? In my current campaign I used the standard magic system for the first half until it broke too totally at 1000 character points. My modification was that all magic used energy reserves instead of FP. There were three types of energy reserves(ER): Active,Short term, Long term. Each energy point from active ER that you use costs 1 FP. It recovers as normal ER (ie. 1/10 minutes regardless of rest and such). Note that the FP loss from this was normal FP loss and thus could be recovered fast with fit and such, but the ER recovered only at normal speed) Magic short term energy reserve recovers 1 point every hour. The long term energy has extremly slow recovery: 1 point/day. There was also a limitation on how many short and long term ER they could buy, though the limit is not really needed all that much. Doing something similar to the active/short term reserve could likely fill your need. __________________ -- GURPS spaceship unofficial errata and thoughts: https://gsuc.roto.nu/

01-31-2016, 04:36 PM	#4
starslayer Join Date: Dec 2006	Re: [Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting? Use threshold based magic. Set the base threshold quite low, say 20 points. Make the recovery rate quite fast, say 5 points/hour. Rewrite the calamity table to be focused around exhausting (and in extreme cases killing) the caster. Casters can choose how they grow- either increasing their resistance to the exhaustive effects of exertion (more FP, higher HT, etc), or puchasing increase threshold or threshold recovery. This will mean that there are 4 ways a caster can grow in power: 1. More skill/spells. 2. Larger pool to draw from allowing for bigger 'on the spot' expenditures 3. Faster pool recovery allowing for more frequent casting 4. Increased personal vitality, allowing them to tolerate more calamity in their casting safely.

01-31-2016, 05:14 PM	#5
Brandy Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Nashville, TN	Re: [Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting? I did it by creating a new attribute, Mana, which was calculated using the Basic Lift formula applied to IQ+Magery. A low-level mage with IQ 12 and Magery 1 has 34 points available; an arch-mage with IQ 15 and Magery III has 65. These function like FP for magic, and the recovery rate is the same even though the pool is bigger. Then, I went through all the spells and refigured their costs. x4 for most spells, but this let me take some trivial spells and move their costs down, so that their relative cost was less while still being non-zero. __________________ I didn't realize who I was until I stopped being who I wasn't. Formerly known as Bookman- forum name changed 1/3/2018.

12-20-2017, 09:12 PM	#9
mr beer Join Date: Mar 2013	Re: [Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting? I used a homebrew thing for 3e by which mages got 1 magic point for every 2 character points they spent on Magery or learning spells. Then they got those points back after a full night's rest. So if you have Magery 3 [35] and 35 spells with 1 point in each [35], then you have 70 / 2 = 35 magic points available for spells every day. I used also a mildly complex rule whereby you could temporarily sacrifice ST for additional magic points (25% of your daily total), then make a control roll against lower ST + Magery or suffer various nasty effects.

12-20-2017, 10:59 PM	#10
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: [Magic] Energy Reserves and FP - how to make more in combat casting? I have allowed characters to sacrifice character points for 25 FP each, up to a maximum amount of character points per session equal to IQ plus Magery.